Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 02-17-2013, 04:33 PM

This is very significant also from an article by Talley on the same subject:

Quote:

Bainton's assumption of the originality of January 6 and of the computation of the April Pascha date from that was based on his conviction that April 6 was not a significant solar date. It was significant, however, in Asia Minor. The Julian reform of the Asian calendar in 9 B.C. took the birthday of Augustus, September 23 (IX Kal Oct.), as the beginning of the year. Each month was assigned the number of days in its Roman equivalent, but each began on the ninth of the Kalends of that Roman month. The first spring month, Artemisios, began on the ninth of the Kalends of April, March 24, and the fourteenth day of that month was April 6, the Quartodeciman Pascha for that solar calendar. This surely provides sufficient title for the priority of the April date and the computation to January 6 for Christ's birth from April 6 as the date of his death and conception. http://books.google.com/books?id=mx9...ity%22&f=false

stephan huller · 02-17-2013, 09:11 PM

I am starting to see that an argument can be made that the gospel was written with the Julian reform of the calendar. The thing that is so striking to me at least is that the months seem to correspond to the pentacontad cycle of the Therapeutae and other Jewish sectarian groups.

Let's go backwards from the fifteen of the seventh month (which is a fiftieth day Sunday).

3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15

http://books.google.com/books?id=W_g...20B.C.&f=false

stephan huller · 02-17-2013, 10:08 PM

It seems that the Julian calendar was first adopted in Egypt c. 49 - 46 BCE or 30 BCE (Alan E. Samuel, Greek and Roman Chronology p 186) and then in Asia 9 BCE. "The success of the Julian system destroyed all the ancient calendars in Greece, and all but the Hebrew calendar in the Eastern provinces. It would take the Moslem success to bring back lunar reckoning to a position of importance in the Mediterranean." (p. 188)

stephan huller · 02-18-2013, 12:11 AM

Artemisios was reckoned as the first month in official Syrian coins
http://books.google.com/books?id=W_g...0month&f=false

but the situation changed by 45 CE when Xandikos formerly the twelfth month became first and Artemisios second

http://books.google.com/books?id=W_g...ndikos&f=false

stephan huller · 02-18-2013, 01:32 PM

Another interesting aspect of the gospel is the fact that no names of months are used. There is an almost intentional murkiness about the calendar used - probably to obscure the original provenance. Interestingly the Apostolic Constitutions does identify the names of the months and not surprisingly now we see that it is the survival of the old Macedonian calendar used by the Montanists:

Quote:

For they began to hold a council against the Lord on the second day of the week, in the first month, which is Xanthicus; and the deliberation continued on the third day of the week; but on the fourth day they determined to take away His life by crucifixion. And Judas knowing this, who for a long time had been perverted, but was then smitten by the devil himself with the love of money, although he had been long entrusted with the purse,3059 and used to steal what was set apart for the needy, yet was he not cast off by the Lord, through much long-suffering http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.ix.vi.iii.html

Josephus demonstrates that the same solar calendar was used by Jews of the age:

Quote:

Thus also, before the Jewish rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus [Nisan] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day-time; which light lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was being led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner, [court of the temple,] which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now, those that kept watch in the temple came thereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared, that this signal foreshewed the DESOLATION that was coming upon them” - (Jewish War IV,5,3)

Polycarp is stated to have been martyred on a great sabbath, the 2nd of Xanthicus, the 7th before the kalends of March. Josephus also says that Masada took place on the feast of Passover on the 15 of Xanthicus (Jewish War 7.9) and that the Jewish Passover was celebrated on 14 Xanthicus, Ant. iii 10, 5 (248); B.J 5 3, i (98); 13, 7 (567)

stephan huller · 02-18-2013, 09:18 PM

It should be also noted that scholars can't figure out what calendar Josephus used. There are three to choose from:

http://books.google.com/books?id=9R_...lendar&f=false

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02-17-2013, 09:11 PM	#12
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I am starting to see that an argument can be made that the gospel was written with the Julian reform of the calendar. The thing that is so striking to me at least is that the months seem to correspond to the pentacontad cycle of the Therapeutae and other Jewish sectarian groups. Let's go backwards from the fifteen of the seventh month (which is a fiftieth day Sunday). 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 http://books.google.com/books?id=W_g...20B.C.&f=false

02-17-2013, 10:08 PM	#13
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It seems that the Julian calendar was first adopted in Egypt c. 49 - 46 BCE or 30 BCE (Alan E. Samuel, Greek and Roman Chronology p 186) and then in Asia 9 BCE. "The success of the Julian system destroyed all the ancient calendars in Greece, and all but the Hebrew calendar in the Eastern provinces. It would take the Moslem success to bring back lunar reckoning to a position of importance in the Mediterranean." (p. 188)

02-18-2013, 12:11 AM	#14
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Artemisios was reckoned as the first month in official Syrian coins http://books.google.com/books?id=W_g...0month&f=false but the situation changed by 45 CE when Xandikos formerly the twelfth month became first and Artemisios second http://books.google.com/books?id=W_g...ndikos&f=false

02-18-2013, 09:18 PM	#16
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It should be also noted that scholars can't figure out what calendar Josephus used. There are three to choose from: http://books.google.com/books?id=9R_...lendar&f=false

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