Xianthe

And, if we are to believe the hadith, Muslims will always experience recurring unsettled periods.

Salam

I agree with both of you.

People won't settle when their faith is full of contradictions.

Xianthe

So what is the answer to the current 'unsettled' state of Islam? If the matter were contained to Islam alone perhaps the world could deal with it but it spills over into seemingly endless bloodshed amongst Muslims as well as those of other beliefs. For the most part, the vast majority of Christians seem to have reached a conciliation of sorts. For example, the Second Vatican Council, 1964, renounced its centuries old position, extra ecclesiam nulla gratia (outside the church no grace). It adopted a new stance, "Those who through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience -- those too may achieve eternal salvation."

Whether people remember or not, this marks a watershed event in Christendom which opened the door to ecumenicalism and peace amongst all religions. Will Islam ever do the same?

Salam

Islam will be the same when the Islamic countries have an education system and technology as high as the western world. Then the majority will stop listening to the hatred preachers and extremist brain washers.

The problem is, the Islamic world will never develop in the presence of these people in control.

However, more muslims are going toward moderation after the shameful acts the extremists are doing.

mountainman

One similarity between christians and muslims
is that their "holy book" was published in the
very first instance, by military supremacists.

Supreme military authority, under which political
dissenters were executed, is common to both
books, whether or not you wish to call these
books, good, moderate, bad or ugly.

Anyone who ultimately thinks that the dynamic
living universal "truth" is to be bound into a
static rendition of papyri scribblings is in the
ultimate sense, not thinking.

That's my drift.


Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Joan of Bark

Yeah, if monotheists simply prayed to Yahweh / God / Allah instead of referencing fallible human works, we'd have more agreement on what the almighty wants.

Unless he doesn't exist.

tjakey

I suppose they would be "bad Muslims" to their more radical kindred, just as Christian fundamentalists often deride "moderate" Christians as not being true believers. Even so, though they may be "bad Muslims" they are a sure sight better human beings then the radicals.

Xianthe

Then I think we should be grateful to Salam for asking the question.

Huon

It is possible to find everything in the Qur’an :
Good for future martyrs.
Note that Muhammad did not seek for death...
But I am a wrong-doer (at least a wrong-thinker).
Exact, I don't seek for death, and I am a sinner.
Now, I am perverse.
In what context was this written ? It could have been at a moment when Muhammad was not strong enough to force his religion on the rest of the local population ?

On the other hand, we know, from the spanish history for instance, that there was a tax on the non-muslim people living in a muslim state. (And it happened that some Christians converted to Islam, so as to avoid this djiziyya).

So, it was possible to get money from people who were wrong-doers, sinners, cursed, perverse, and tolerated. And the money was clean ?

Toto

The off topic discussion of whether this thread belongs in this forum, with some extraneious posts, has been split off here