Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Celsus · 11-08-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celsus

The one in which the only valid interpretation must be that of the Christian (religionist?), a la FF Bruce. Sheffield's apparent 'demise' is being interpreted in the same way Hebrew prophets denounced Israelite kings (and god bless 20-20 hindsight) for their failure to serve Yahweh and therefore everything bad that ever happens henceforth is theirfault(tm). It's a load of tripe basically.

I take it that you've never read Witherington's The Problem with Evangelical Theology: Testing the Exegetical Founbdations of Calvinism, Dispensationalism, and Weslyanism? (or via: amazon.co.uk) in which he shows that his hermenuetic is a bit more sophisticated than you present it to be -- or logic text books which discuss the argument known as "the straw man".

Jeffrey

And I suggest you read the blog exchange in question in which he can't pull his head out of his hermeneutic trap.

Edit: well seeing as he deleted it, you'll probably have a harder time of it now

Steven Carr · 11-09-2009, 12:22 AM

Witherington deleted the exchange of comments?

And this guy lectured other people on the correct way to run a university department?

First rule when dealing with the extremely religious - never trust them.

spin · 11-09-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celsus

The one in which the only valid interpretation must be that of the Christian (religionist?), a la FF Bruce. Sheffield's apparent 'demise' is being interpreted in the same way Hebrew prophets denounced Israelite kings (and god bless 20-20 hindsight) for their failure to serve Yahweh and therefore everything bad that ever happens henceforth is theirfault(tm). It's a load of tripe basically.

I take it that you've never read Witherington's The Problem with Evangelical Theology: Testing the Exegetical Founbdations of Calvinism, Dispensationalism, and Weslyanism? (or via: amazon.co.uk) in which he shows that his hermenuetic is a bit more sophisticated than you present it to be

I guess you'd argue that because Stalin wrote a constitution, he must have been a democrat; or that because J. Edgar Hoover wrote a book about communists, he must have been familiar with them.

You can see the difference between talking and walking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

-- or logic text books which discuss the argument known as "the straw man".

What about "the garden path"?

spin

squiz · 11-11-2009, 04:50 AM

Here are some other "biblioblogs" that are talking about this:

James Crossley:
http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...-comments.html
http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...-from-bw3.html
http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...-from-bw3.html

Jim West:
http://jwest.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...ally-say-that/
http://jwest.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...-witherington/
http://jwest.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...on-apropos-ly/

squiz · 11-12-2009, 12:02 AM

And it continues here:
http://dunedinschool.wordpress.com/2...g-bewildering/

Check these quotes:

Quote:

Hi Stephanie:

Thanks for this free publicity for Asbury Seminary and Christianity Today. We appreciate it. Never mind that you’ve misrepresented me and my concerns, but hey that’s what bloggers love to do. You know what they say– any publicity is good publicity.

Cheers,

BW3

Quote:

stephanielouisefisher

Yes Ben, I know they can misrepresent people. Sheffield University Biblical Studies Department have been scandalously misrepresented and the evidence is still there on Christianity Today. Please tell me how I have misrepresented you. It’s a pleasure to give you free publicity.

Toto · 11-12-2009, 12:36 AM

Just remember that in The Brother of Jesus: The Dramatic Story & Meaning of the First Archaeological Link to Jesus & His Family (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Hershel Shanks and Ben Witherington III, rushed to print before the James Ossuary could be fully examined, Witherington (BW3) opined that a DNA sample from bone chips in the ossuary could be matched against a sample from blood on the Shroud of Turin, and this would provide extra confirmation in the fullness of time that God was making the word visible to an age that demanded proof.

Seriously. Check page 279 on the googlebooks edition.

dog-on · 11-12-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Just remember that in The Brother of Jesus: The Dramatic Story & Meaning of the First Archaeological Link to Jesus & His Family (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Hershel Shanks and Ben Witherington III, rushed to print before the James Ossuary could be fully examined, Witherington (BW3) opined that a DNA sample from bone chips in the ossuary could be matched against a sample from blood on the Shroud of Turin, and this would provide extra confirmation in the fullness of time that God was making the word visible to an age that demanded proof.

Seriously. Check page 279 on the googlebooks edition.

Steven Carr · 11-12-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Just remember that in The Brother of Jesus: The Dramatic Story & Meaning of the First Archaeological Link to Jesus & His Family (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Hershel Shanks and Ben Witherington III, rushed to print before the James Ossuary could be fully examined, Witherington (BW3) opined that a DNA sample from bone chips in the ossuary could be matched against a sample from blood on the Shroud of Turin, and this would provide extra confirmation in the fullness of time that God was making the word visible to an age that demanded proof.

Seriously. Check page 279 on the googlebooks edition.

So what conclusion should we draw from the fact that God is not providing such confirmation?

Should we conclude that Witherington's God does not exist? Or that Witherington only looks for evidence of his god's existence, and if such evidence is not forthcoming, he will look for other evidence?

squiz · 11-13-2009, 05:40 AM

It seems that they are now threatening to close the department at the University of Gloucestershire.
http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...future-of.html

Is this department also considered to have a secular approach? I assume that this is purely due to budget cuts, but comments like those from Ben Witherington, make me wonder (as an uninformed outsider) if there isn't some lobbying going on behind the scenes.

Steven Carr · 11-13-2009, 05:46 AM

The University of Gloucestershire run a course in 'Applied Theology'

'Combining theory and practice, this course brings together the principles of leadership and living a Christian life with studying the Bible and theology. Seeking to understand the meaning of the Gospel for the world is at the heart of this fascinating subject which emphasises the need for application of theology and academic study.

There are many issues facing Christians in the modern world, and a deeper understanding of the Bible and Christian tradition gives you the tools to interpret and reflect on them. Gaining this understanding can form an important part of ministry, mission and leadership. Therefore our course fosters the understanding of Christian theology from a standpoint within life
and practice.'

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11-09-2009, 12:22 AM	#12
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Witherington deleted the exchange of comments? And this guy lectured other people on the correct way to run a university department? First rule when dealing with the extremely religious - never trust them.

11-11-2009, 04:50 AM	#14
squiz Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Munich Germany Posts: 434	Here are some other "biblioblogs" that are talking about this: James Crossley: http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...-comments.html http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...-from-bw3.html http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...-from-bw3.html Jim West: http://jwest.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...ally-say-that/ http://jwest.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...-witherington/ http://jwest.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...on-apropos-ly/

11-12-2009, 12:36 AM	#16
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Just remember that in The Brother of Jesus: The Dramatic Story & Meaning of the First Archaeological Link to Jesus & His Family (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Hershel Shanks and Ben Witherington III, rushed to print before the James Ossuary could be fully examined, Witherington (BW3) opined that a DNA sample from bone chips in the ossuary could be matched against a sample from blood on the Shroud of Turin, and this would provide extra confirmation in the fullness of time that God was making the word visible to an age that demanded proof. Seriously. Check page 279 on the googlebooks edition.

11-13-2009, 05:40 AM	#19
squiz Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Munich Germany Posts: 434	It seems that they are now threatening to close the department at the University of Gloucestershire. http://earliestchristianhistory.blog...future-of.html Is this department also considered to have a secular approach? I assume that this is purely due to budget cuts, but comments like those from Ben Witherington, make me wonder (as an uninformed outsider) if there isn't some lobbying going on behind the scenes.

11-13-2009, 05:46 AM	#20
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	The University of Gloucestershire run a course in 'Applied Theology' 'Combining theory and practice, this course brings together the principles of leadership and living a Christian life with studying the Bible and theology. Seeking to understand the meaning of the Gospel for the world is at the heart of this fascinating subject which emphasises the need for application of theology and academic study. There are many issues facing Christians in the modern world, and a deeper understanding of the Bible and Christian tradition gives you the tools to interpret and reflect on them. Gaining this understanding can form an important part of ministry, mission and leadership. Therefore our course fosters the understanding of Christian theology from a standpoint within life and practice.'

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