Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Adonael · 05-08-2008, 02:52 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQqevkr9bms

Is Craig correct when he says that the Islamic God's love is conditional?

Toto · 05-08-2008, 04:09 PM

I'm not going to click on that youtube link - but I'll assume it says what you say it does.

There is a discussion here on answering-islam.com.

It appears that Muslims do not agree that Allah's love is conditional, but this may be a matter of how the term is defined. Muslims stress that Allah is compassionate, all forgiving and all loving, while Christians find verses that say that Allah loves those who are good and do good works.

This is from a dead web page:

Quote:

Conditional Love

The Muslim believes Allah loves a person conditionally, based on the person’s righteous acts. Thus, acts of righteousness are the basis for God’s approval. A Muslim friend of mine once declared to me that, likewise, love is a poor basis for human relationships or ethics. Only the unchanging law of Allah aided by the traditions about the life of Mohammed (the Hadith) is sufficient. My friend told me specifically, “I can love and forgive my enemy only when he changes his behavior toward me and not before.” It is in this spirit that the Islamic fundamentalists stress law and rigidity to such a degree that they seem to return to the retribution and retaliation of an earlier era.

This sounds like the conflict between grace and works that is never quite resolved in Christian theology. After all, Jesus/God loves sinners (he made so many of them) but, as George Carlin points out, if you don't return the love he will torture you in hell for all eternity. This sounds like conditional love to me. The conditions are just slightly different from Allah's.

Adonael · 05-08-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This sounds like conditional love to me. The conditions are just slightly different from Allah's.

How is it conditional love?

xaxxat · 05-08-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This sounds like conditional love to me. The conditions are just slightly different from Allah's.

How is it conditional love?

How is it not?

Autonemesis · 05-08-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This sounds like conditional love to me. The conditions are just slightly different from Allah's.

How is it conditional love?

Better question: how is it love?

Adonael · 05-08-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaxxat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonael

How is it conditional love?

How is it not?

I don't see this as my burden.

Toto · 05-08-2008, 08:06 PM

This is getting a little off the area of BCH -- but unconditional love is unconditional. It's some basic human yearning, to be loved without conditions, whatever one's acts or failings or sins. That's what Christianity tries to sell, when it isn't trying to scare kids with hell.

There is a romantic notion of the healing power of unconditional love. But how can love be unconditional if you are tortured if you don't believe in it? And should unconditional love be left to mothers and saints - can it be the basis of a society? Can you live in a society without rules and without some negative feedback for bad behavior?

I don't see much difference between the Christian and Islamic ideas of god - both are somewhat incoherent, subject to change depending on the needs of the moment.

Amaleq13 · 05-08-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonael

How is it conditional love?

There is a condition that must be met before the love will be given.

Dante Alighieri · 05-08-2008, 09:55 PM

And yet he believes that God eternally tortures physically/psychologically non-believers for all eternity.

Go figure?

Steven Carr · 05-09-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonael

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQqevkr9bms

Is Craig correct when he says that the Islamic God's love is conditional?

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

This is usually explained as God hating whole nations, rather than individual people ?!?

05-08-2008, 02:52 PM	#1
Adonael Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: S. Canada Posts: 1,252	Craig on the Islamic God http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQqevkr9bms Is Craig correct when he says that the Islamic God's love is conditional?

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05-08-2008, 08:06 PM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	This is getting a little off the area of BCH -- but unconditional love is unconditional. It's some basic human yearning, to be loved without conditions, whatever one's acts or failings or sins. That's what Christianity tries to sell, when it isn't trying to scare kids with hell. There is a romantic notion of the healing power of unconditional love. But how can love be unconditional if you are tortured if you don't believe in it? And should unconditional love be left to mothers and saints - can it be the basis of a society? Can you live in a society without rules and without some negative feedback for bad behavior? I don't see much difference between the Christian and Islamic ideas of god - both are somewhat incoherent, subject to change depending on the needs of the moment.

05-08-2008, 09:55 PM	#9
Dante Alighieri Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 765	And yet he believes that God eternally tortures physically/psychologically non-believers for all eternity. Go figure?

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