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Old 06-26-2006, 04:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge
Here is a portion of an ancient latin mss (fourth cent).
Why is it written in Greek then?

Stephen
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Old 06-26-2006, 04:44 AM   #12
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I doubt if the bible has been tainted or tampered with in any meaningful way. Being as it is God’s primary written means of revealing His character and purpose to us, I guess He would have been keen to ensure that every care was taken in its authorship and publication. The fact is that the Bible exists – whether one accepts or rejects its message is a clear-cut matter. If it is God’s revelation to mankind, it rightfully holds the place as the best selling book ever.

If God had ensured that all of the original manuscripts had been perfectly preserved, I am not convinced that more people would want to know the God who is revealed in its pages. As well as overseeing the maintenance of copious manuscripts over 2000 year, the God of the Bible would be capable of showing Himself physically and undeniably to us on earth, but chooses not to. Perhaps the original manuscripts would have become precious museum exhibits, worshipped for their archaeological ‘value’, and drawing attention from the God whom they depict?
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Old 06-26-2006, 05:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmabob
I doubt if the bible has been tainted or tampered with in any meaningful way. Being as it is God’s primary written means of revealing His character and purpose to us, I guess He would have been keen to ensure that every care was taken in its authorship and publication. The fact is that the Bible exists – whether one accepts or rejects its message is a clear-cut matter. If it is God’s revelation to mankind, it rightfully holds the place as the best selling book ever.

If God had ensured that all of the original manuscripts had been perfectly preserved, I am not convinced that more people would want to know the God who is revealed in its pages. As well as overseeing the maintenance of copious manuscripts over 2000 year, the God of the Bible would be capable of showing Himself physically and undeniably to us on earth, but chooses not to. Perhaps the original manuscripts would have become precious museum exhibits, worshipped for their archaeological ‘value’, and drawing attention from the God whom they depict?

Interesting post as far as it goes.

It seems to have one or two things lacking, though - like a compelling argument that any god(s) exist, and, if so, that it had anything to do with the bible.

These things seem -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmabob
Being as it is God’s primary written means of revealing His character and purpose to us, I guess He would have been keen to ensure that every care was taken in its authorship and publication.
- to just be assumed.

I doubt that I'm the only one who finds this less than convincing.

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Old 06-26-2006, 05:46 AM   #14
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how can you claim that the bible is accurate to 99.5% when even today we have many different versions
e.g.
(AAT) The Complete Bible: An American Translation, by Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, 1939.
(ABT) The Afro Bible Translation
(ATB) The Alternate Translation Bible
(ASV) American Standard Version
(AB) The Amplified Bible
(ALT) Analytical-Literal Translation
(ASL) American Sign Language Translation
(AV) Authorized Version (same as KJV)
(Bar) The New Testament: A New Translation, by William Barclay
(BLB) The Better Life Bible
(BWE) Bible in WorldWide English
(CCB) Christian Community Bible
(CE) The Common Edition: New Testament
(CJB) Complete Jewish Bible
(CV) Concordant Version
(CEV) Contemporary English Version
(Dar) Darby
(DR) Douay-Rheims
(DRP) David Robert Palmer's translations of the gospels
(EMTV) English Majority Text Version
(ENT) Extreme New Testament (revision of Simple English Bible, below)
(ERV) Easy-to-Read Version
(ESV) English Standard Version
(FF) Ferrar Fenton Bible
(GLW) God's Living Word
(GNC) God's New Covenant: A New Testament Translation, by Heinz W. Cassirer
(GNT) Good News Translation [formerly, (GNB) Good News Bible, and (TEV) Today's English Version]
(GW) God's Word
(HCSB) Holman Christian Standard Bible (HNV) Hebrew Names Version
(ICB) International Children's Bible (children's version of the NCV)
(ISB) International Standard Bible (formerly titled The Simple English Bible)
(ISV) The International Standard Version
ISV Naturalness and Comprehension Survey, by Phil Fields
(JBP) New Testament in Modern English, by J.B. Phillips
(JNT) Jewish New Testament: A Translation of the New Testament That Expresses Its Jewishness (see Complete Jewish Bible)
(JPS) Jerusalem Publication Society: Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures, The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text
(KJV) King James Version and recent revisions
(DKJB) Defined King James Bible
(KJII) King James Version II (renamed to Literal Translation of the Holy Bible)
(KJ21) King James for the 21st Century
KJV21 review
(KJ2000) King James 2000
(LITV) The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (formerly named King James II)
(MKJV) Modern King James Version
(NKJV) New King James Version
(RAV) Revised Authorised Version (British edition of the NKJV), review
(RKJV) Revised King James New Testament
(TMB) The Third Millennium Bible
(UKJV) Updated King James Version
(LITV) The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (see under KJV and recent revisions)
(LB) Living Bible
(MAEV) Modern American English Vernacular
(MLB) Modern Language Bible: New Berkeley Version
(Mof) Bible: James Moffatt Translation (amazon.com)
(NAB) New American Bible
(NAB) New American Bible (access entire Bible)
(NASB) New American Standard Bible
(NCV) New Century Version
(NEB) New English Bible
(NET) New English Translation
(NET) New Evangelical Translation
(NIrV) New Internation Reader's Version
(NIV) New International Version
(NJB) New Jerusalem Bible
(NKJV) New King James Version (see under KJV and recent revisions)
(NLV) New Life Version
(NLT) New Living Translation
(NRSV) New Revised Standard Bible
(NWT) New World Translation (published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of the Jehovah's Witnesses)
(OBP) The Original Bible Project
(OSB) Orthodox Study Bible
(ONT) The Original New Testament: The First Definitive Translation of the New Testament in 2000 Years, by Hugh Schonfield
(PMB) Postmodern Bible - Amos
(Rec) Recovery Version
(REB) The Revised English Bible (revision of NEB)
(RSV) Revised Standard Version
(RV) Revised Version, 1885
(RYLT) Revised Young's Literal Translation
(Sch) The Schocken Bible
(SEB) The Simple English Bible
(SENT) Spoken English New Testament
(TM) The Message
(TMB) The Third Millennium Bible
(TEV) Today's English Version [see (GNT) Good News Translation]
(TNIV) Today's New International Version
(Tyn) Tyndale
(Wey) Weymouth
(WEB) World English Bible
(Wms) The New Testament in the Language of the People, by Charles B. Williams
(WNT) Wesley's New Testament
(Wuest) The New Testament
(YLT) Young's Literal Translation of the Bible

list taken from http://www.geocities.com/bible_trans...glish.htm#list

And that is only the english versions!
All of these versions are different in some way (or they wouldn't be published) some more so than others.
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Old 06-26-2006, 05:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson
Why is it written in Greek then?

Stephen

It's Greek to me!
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Old 06-26-2006, 06:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmabob
I doubt if the bible has been tainted or tampered with in any meaningful way. Being as it is God’s primary written means of revealing His character and purpose to us, I guess He would have been keen to ensure that every care was taken in its authorship and publication.
Sadly, you are wrong. An example:

Did Jesus look upon the leper with anger, or with pity, before he healed him? Mark 1:41. Earliest ms say "anger." Then Jesus is stern. Angry and stern does not fit with the meek and mild Jesus the scribes wanted to portray, so they changed the anger to pity/compassion.
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Old 06-26-2006, 08:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge


Here is a portion of an ancient latin mss (fourth cent).

The footnote reads "fool and knave why can't you leave the original reading".

By the fourth century having the correct theology was so important that it seems at times come scribes changed some texts.

Of course not all the alleged changes have such strong evidence.
Surely this is an example, not of a theological change but of someone changing a text to bring it into line with all the others he had? And of someone else expressing his dissent?

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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Old 06-26-2006, 11:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse
Surely this is an example, not of a theological change but of someone changing a text to bring it into line with all the others he had? And of someone else expressing his dissent?

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Gee, and you got all that from that little photograph? WOW.

Do you have some evidence that what you propose is that to which the footnote actually refers? Or is that simply what you want it to mean?
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Old 06-26-2006, 11:42 AM   #19
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It is a famous correction, more here: http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/V.../note1512.html

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Old 06-26-2006, 12:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmabob
If God had ensured that all of the original manuscripts had been perfectly preserved, I am not convinced that more people would want to know the God who is revealed in its pages. As well as overseeing the maintenance of copious manuscripts over 2000 year, the God of the Bible would be capable of showing Himself physically and undeniably to us on earth, but chooses not to. Perhaps the original manuscripts would have become precious museum exhibits, worshipped for their archaeological ‘value’, and drawing attention from the God whom they depict?
Your statement is just speculation, you have no verifiable evidence of God nor have any knowledge of what He would have done if He existed.

Human beings are not as dumb as you think. Human Beings make full use of anything or anyone that is shown to be reliable. For that reason, people call 911 in an emergency, use a computer to send e-mails, go to the auto mechanic when their car is broken, get surgery done by a surgeon and check weather reports.

If God was known to be reliable, then every one in the world would recommend his services and use them to the fullest. People would trust Him, like they trust any reliable person.

The Christian Bible is of unknown origin, no-one really knows if Christianity is true. The true name of authors of the Bible can not be confirmed. No believer has been able to fulfill the words of Jesus. The Christian Bible appears to have no significant value.
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