Diogenes the Cynic

Yes. The Psalm is talking about the Davidic Dynasty as a whole, and even then, it's using the "Kings" (the "you"), as a metaphor for Israel itself.

tanya

Sorry, friend, but this is not a translation. I quoted Jerome's "original, fourth century" text of Mark 3:12

http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=1&b=2&c=3

The Greek and Latin texts are slightly out of synchrony, so in the Greek version, this is Mark 3:11, and in Jerome's Latin version, 3:12.

Here is Hort and Westcott, all Greek, no capitalization
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B41C003.htm#V11

Here is the original Psalms 2:7, masoretic text, with YHWH, not kurios:

אספרה אל חק יהוה אמר אלי בני אתה אני היום ילדתיך׃

(I cannot read it, apart from yhwh!)

and the Latin version, cited above:

2:7 Dominus dixit ad me filius meus es tu ego hodie genui te

I think it is safe to assume that I am uneducated, other than that, it is not usually productive to make assumptions about an author's text.

I don't share your enthusiasm for that translation of the Latin (I know not the Hebrew original, maybe it is just as you have written):

"God said to me, you are my son, today I have become your father", all in lower case--nothing at all about the "kings of Israel".

sotto voce

Where is it now? How long did it last before it split and apostasised? No sensible Jew can explain

'I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession'

without referring to a future messiah.

Diogenes the Cynic

the Vulgate is still a translation. the Vulgate is not the original text. The original Greek text is all caps.
It's not an "assumption" it's what the text says.
I didn't make or cite any translation from Latin, nor quote any translation at all. I just cited chapter and verse. Moreover, the Vulgate is irrelevant.
There isn't any lower case in the Hebrew. The lower case in the Latin translation means nothing. The Vulgate is not the original text.

That the Psalm is addressed to Kings of Israel is made explicit by verses 6 and 10.

sotto voce

Nonsense.

Diogenes the Cynic

What is your intent with this question? We're talking about mythology here, not history. There may or may not have ever been a Davidic dynasty, but that's irrelevant to what the author of that Psalm believed.


The poem is arguably alluding to a future Messiah, but one descended from David, not God. It's really more about Israel as a whole, though.

Diogenes the Cynic

What is nonsense?

Chili

It is meant to be read that way with King being home in Isreal on earth without boundary.

tanya

haha, we are each writing our own story, technically called "schizophrenic dialogue", like in "Death of a Salesman".

"it's what the text says."

Really?

Explicit? Are you sure?

Am I not correct, that the text of Psalms 2:7 does NOT address the Kings of Israel, precisely as I maintained, right? You are arguing about something that is unequivocally NOT EXPLICIT, it is something that you are pulling from outer space, right?

Here is the literal reading of the Masoretic text:

Psalms 2:7 I will tell of the decree. Yahweh said to me, "You are my son. Today I have become your father. There is nothing at all about KIngs, or Israel either. This is childish, to be arguing like this. The text does not support your interpretation.

I haven't looked at verse 6 or 10, I am not going to challenge the English translation of Psalms 2:7 based upon the English of some other Psalm. Maybe if I understood Hebrew, I could comprehend your point, more easily.

You seem to me, to be confabulating. You write about text that is non-existent, and claim EXPLICITNESS. Perhaps your interpretation is PRECISELY ACCURATE, and in accord with the original Hebrew author's intention. I surely do not know. I know only that your interpretation is highly idiosyncratic, and dependent upon an analysis of some text other than that which is under discussion.

Wow. Really?

You know what the author of Psalm 2:7 believed?
Holy cow. Congratulations.

Outstanding. Great work.

I must be missing a lot in life, by having failed to study my ancestral Hebrew language as a kid. We were too busy with Barbie dolls, I suppose.....

sotto voce

Even better. How long did the myth of David's kingdom survive, before it split and apostasised?