Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 04-18-2005, 02:35 AM

I am not sure Judaism is a useful guide - are Rabbis actually priests? They do not carry out sacrifices.

In any case Paul upset things according to Luther with this new fangled concept of priesthood of all believers.

Quote:

It can change and it will continue to change but it will never change into something else.

Is this a quote from 1984?

Anat · 04-18-2005, 07:24 AM

The role of the rabbi is to instruct his community wrt halakha, answer questions and interpret rulings for situations as they emerge. Even at a wedding the presence of a rabbi isn't actually necessary (just the couple and 2 witnesses), the rabbi is there to make sure nothing invalidates the ceremony on halakhic technical grounds.

Toto · 04-18-2005, 12:53 PM

Digression split off here

John A. Broussard · 04-18-2005, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valz

I rest my case

With Valz's case rested, is there anyone else out there who can explain to me why the Catholic Church does not allow women to become priests? Since the next pope may very well be faced with having to change the existing rule, what is the current justification for refusing to ordain women?

S.C.Carlson · 04-18-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

With Valz's case rested, is there anyone else out there who can explain to me why the Catholic Church does not allow women to become priests?

The short answer is that Pope John Paul II in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (May 22, 1994) authoritatively said so. Read the short apostolic letter for the reasons why he said so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

Since the next pope may very well be faced with having to change the existing rule, what is the current justification for refusing to ordain women?

Arguably, one of the purposes of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is to prevent a future pope from changing the rule:

Quote:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

A responsum dubium by Cardinal Ratzinger (Oct. 28, 1995) clarifies that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was intended to be an infallible (or "definitive") teaching of the church.

Clivedurdle · 04-18-2005, 02:12 PM

And Ratzinger is in line to be the next Pope? I assume Protestants do have Biblical backing for the concept of priesthood of all believers, and arguably as Christ is the High Priest you do not need any other priests - the sacrificing is meant to be finished, communion is 'in remembrance." so, from a Protestant background, the infallible Pope is wrong!

Wallener · 04-18-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson

A responsum dubium by Cardinal Ratzinger (Oct. 28, 1995) clarifies that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was intended to be an infallible (or "definitive") teaching of the church.

Does a Cardinal have the authority to "clarify" infallibility status of teachings?

Wallener · 04-18-2005, 02:32 PM

I am not RCatholic, so I have no idea if this stuff is valid. So FWIW, this is what my (generally) knowledgable RC friend just told me regarding that Papal announcement.

Bottom line: it is not infallible in the official sense of the word, but was intentionally made to look as much as possible like it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reasons I was given

1. It is an Apostolic Letter rather than an Apostolic Constitution (the latter more commonly known as a "Papal Bull"
2. the letter was addressed to the Bishops, and not to the RC Church (the latter being a requirement of infallibility as defined in Vatican I)
3. the announcement never said "we define", it used the more ambiguous "to be definitively held"

What is interesting to me is that Ratzinger's follow up clearly indicates "confusion" amongst the bishopry - and instead of a definitive statement from the Pope, a Cardinal sends a memo. To this outsider, and assuming the above is all true, it seems the Church (a) was unable to come to a firm concensus but (b) wanted everybody to shut up about it - for now.

I'd appreciate commentary on this from the more knowledgeable RCers amongst us...

As to Ratzinger being the next pope, my read is that he's annoyed enough of his fellow conclavers during his years as Chief Underling that he doesn't have a chance, even being of advanced age.

S.C.Carlson · 04-18-2005, 02:54 PM

This article discusses and attempts to explain its authoritative status: http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodic...12-96/1/1.html

Wallener · 04-18-2005, 03:17 PM

Thanks! Sure seems to confirm there is an open door here...

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-18-2005, 07:24 AM	#22
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	The role of the rabbi is to instruct his community wrt halakha, answer questions and interpret rulings for situations as they emerge. Even at a wedding the presence of a rabbi isn't actually necessary (just the couple and 2 witnesses), the rabbi is there to make sure nothing invalidates the ceremony on halakhic technical grounds.

04-18-2005, 12:53 PM	#23
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Digression split off here

04-18-2005, 02:12 PM	#26
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	And Ratzinger is in line to be the next Pope? I assume Protestants do have Biblical backing for the concept of priesthood of all believers, and arguably as Christ is the High Priest you do not need any other priests - the sacrificing is meant to be finished, communion is 'in remembrance." so, from a Protestant background, the infallible Pope is wrong!

04-18-2005, 02:54 PM	#29
S.C.Carlson Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,307	This article discusses and attempts to explain its authoritative status: http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodic...12-96/1/1.html

04-18-2005, 03:17 PM	#30
Wallener Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,043	Thanks! Sure seems to confirm there is an open door here...

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.