Freethought & Rationalism Archive

unknown4 · 10-14-2005, 12:48 PM

Does anyone have any opinions about this verse, and its intended meaning?

After quoting Jeremiah 31 referring to the "new covenant", the author of Hebrews says:

in the saying `new,' He has made the first old, and what does become obsolete and is old [is] near disappearing.

Is this supposed to be a vague prediction of the destruction of the Temple? Or a vague statement that since the Temple has been destroyed, the "old covenant" is near disappearing?

Thanks for any help.

Toto · 10-14-2005, 01:13 PM

Doherty has some extensive comments on Hebrews here (scroll down about half way to A Blood Offering)

Quote:

Here, despite attempts to claim the contrary, there can be no denying that Hebrews’ thought world is fundamentally Platonic. This is a divided, dualistic universe of realms heavenly and earthly, genuine and imitation. Christ enters "not that sanctuary made by men’s hands which is only a symbol of the reality, but heaven itself" (9:24). In classic fashion, the upper world contains the "archetype," the lower world the "antitype" or copy.

John Kesler · 10-14-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unknown4

Does anyone have any opinions about this verse, and its intended meaning?

After quoting Jeremiah 31 referring to the "new covenant", the author of Hebrews says:

in the saying `new,' He has made the first old, and what does become obsolete and is old [is] near disappearing.

Is this supposed to be a vague prediction of the destruction of the Temple? Or a vague statement that since the Temple has been destroyed, the "old covenant" is near disappearing?

Thanks for any help.

I don't know that the destruction of the temple was necessarily in view. The verse means that when Jeremiah declared that a new covenant was coming, this necessarily meant that the current covenant was on its way out--"near disappearing" in the version you quote--and as other passages in the epistle make clear, the new covenant was in effect when Hebrews was written. See for example verse 6 of the chapter in question:

Quote:

6 But Jesus has now obtained a more excellent ministry, and to that degree he is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted through better promises.

unknown4 · 10-14-2005, 03:21 PM

Thanks for the responses. I thought of another possible meaning to the text, and that the "end of the world" was supposed to come soon, so in that sense the "old covenant" would be "near disappearing". Whether that was the author's meaning, I am not sure.

I know the KJV says "ready to vanish away", which isn't quite the same as "near disappearing", but it seems the word translated as "ready" usually meant "near" or "nigh".

I think that's not a bad explanation, John, since the text does seem to be saying that once God said "new" as in "new covenant", God made the first one old, which seems to be saying the first one was already "old" in God's mind in Jeremiah 31. Then, the author of Hebrews seems to make a general statement that what becomes obsolete and old is near disappearing.

Any other comments?

10-14-2005, 12:48 PM	#1
unknown4 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 80	Hebrews 8:13 Does anyone have any opinions about this verse, and its intended meaning? After quoting Jeremiah 31 referring to the "new covenant", the author of Hebrews says: in the saying `new,' He has made the first old, and what does become obsolete and is old [is] near disappearing. Is this supposed to be a vague prediction of the destruction of the Temple? Or a vague statement that since the Temple has been destroyed, the "old covenant" is near disappearing? Thanks for any help.

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10-14-2005, 03:21 PM	#4
unknown4 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 80	Thanks for the responses. I thought of another possible meaning to the text, and that the "end of the world" was supposed to come soon, so in that sense the "old covenant" would be "near disappearing". Whether that was the author's meaning, I am not sure. I know the KJV says "ready to vanish away", which isn't quite the same as "near disappearing", but it seems the word translated as "ready" usually meant "near" or "nigh". I think that's not a bad explanation, John, since the text does seem to be saying that once God said "new" as in "new covenant", God made the first one old, which seems to be saying the first one was already "old" in God's mind in Jeremiah 31. Then, the author of Hebrews seems to make a general statement that what becomes obsolete and old is near disappearing. Any other comments?

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