Doug Shaver

I was talking about the claim, so favored by historicists, that Jesus' historicity is not questioned by anybody who is competent in historiography.

aa5874

The Pauline writers appear to be part of a massive fraud. These Pauline writers after having placed themselves BEFORE the Fall of the Temple, ("Paul" was in a basket in Damascus during the time of Aretas), made mention of a character call Jesus a MESSIAH who was worshiped by Jews and people ALL over the Roman Empire as a God.

The PAULINE writers even claimed while they were alive that Jesus a Messiah was given a name ABOVE every other name in heaven, earth and under the earth,was the Creator of heaven and earth, and that EVERY person in the Roman Empire should BOW before the name of Jesus.

No Jewish writer or non Jewish writer wrote about a Messiah called Jesus who was called the Creator of heaven and earth and was equal God.

Jesus the Messiah, Creator of heaven and earth, and equal to God BEFORE the Fall of the Jewish Temple was a MASSIVE LIE. Total FICTION.

The historicity of Jesus A Messiah is completely BOGUS.

spamandham

Right. To engage in legitimate history regarding the Christian texts, one must be proficient in historiography and apply validated methodologies.

aa5874

After posting for over 4 years the resolution of the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth has become astonishingly simple.

Jesus was a fictional/mythical character.

The NT Canon contains stories about a character called Jesus the Messiah but the authorship and dating of the Gospels are not certain but there is a "writer" by the name of "Paul" and the author of Acts who have put themselves as contemporaries of one another and just AFTER Jesus the Messiah was RAISED from the dead and ASCENDED to heaven.

Let us look for the Pauline resurrected Jesus the Messiah, Creator of heaven and earth and EQUAL to the God of the Jews.

Let us look at the supposed contemporaries of the Pauline writers.

Let's look in the writings of Philo for JESUS.

ZERO on JESUS.

Let's look in the writings of Josephus for JESUS.

FORGERIES on JESUS.

Let's look for JESUS in the writings of Roman secular writers BEFORE the Fall of the Jewish Temple.

ZERO on JESUS.

Let's look for JESUS in writings about events in Galilee and Jerusalem BEFORE the Fall of the Temple.

ZERO on JESUS.

Well, let's look for "PAUL" BEFORE the Fall of the Temple ALL over the Roman Empire.

ZERO on PAUL.

Well, let's look for the 12 disciples ALL over the Roman Empire BEFORE the Fall of the Temple.

ZERO on the 12 disciples.

Well, let's look for the churches all over the Roman Empire BEFORE the Fall of the Temple.

ZERO on the churches.

Well, let's look for Jesus believers BEFORE the Fall of the Temple.

ZERO on Jesus believers.

It was rather simple just time consuming.

The historicity of JESUS is ZERO or some similar figure.

David Deas

As if Biblical scholarship wasn't already considered a complete joke by real researchers involved in real fields of scientific study. Talk about beating a dead horse.

spin

There are a lot of zombies out there riding those dead horses. Some people here have found that telling them they're dead isn't sufficient to halt the conveyances.


spin

charles

What does Carrier have to add to any serious discussion. Isn't he an ancient historian? If Christianity is religion based around an unhistorical event as he suggests, don't we need someone like Mircea Eliade to guide us - an expert on comparative religion? How can one be an 'historian' of a non-existent tradition?

aa5874

Maybe it is because there are " Homer like historians" who are around today telling people of the historicity of "Achilles", I mean "Jesus of Nazareth".

Littlejohn

I am also convinced that all New Testament's documents conceal a massive fraud, even though, unlike by you, I believe that in many of these documents there is a core, although sometimes small, of historical truth.

"..Paul was in a basket in Damascus during the time of Aretas.."

This episode proves the rule that I exposed above. Although it may seem hard to believe, however the passage has a surely historical aspect. However, what differs from the historical reality, is the fact that the place where the action takes place was not at all Damascus but Jerusalem.. The king Aretas in this context has nothing absolutely to do anything, because the scene take place certainly a long time after his death!

You insist again to refer you to Jesus of the 'faith'!... If you want really getting some concrete result, you must 'dig' in the 'sands' of the history, rather than continuing to refer on, almost as a 'litany', at the improbable Jesus of faith! ..

Greetings

Littlejohn

.

Toto

Christianity claims to be based on historical events, and Christian apologists have constructed theories about this history. Carrier has a lot to add to the discussion of historical methods and any possible historical basis for Christianity.

The religions and practices that Eliade studied, especially yoga, were based on direct experience

Dr. Jim Linville had a saying - nonsense is nonsense, but the study of nonsense is scholarship.