Duvduv

It looks to me that there is a definite composite in Romans chapter 14, whereby a discussion of fasting practices goes from verses 1 to 7 having nothing to do with the Christian faith, then interrupted by the parenthetical Christian verse 8.

Then the original sermon come back from verse 9 until the middle of verse 15, which injects a sentence that is difficult to understand, continuing in a Christian vein until verse 19 from which the rest of the chapter again sounds like a Jewish sermon.

A similar situation can be seen in Colossians 2, where the sermon is interrupted by Christian insertions as prepositional or parenthetical phrases that do not follow along the flow of the letter.

aa5874

I will NOT follow speculation.

Conclusions, verdicts, Scientific theories, history is based on the DATA that is presented. Theories and previous conclusions can be UPGRADED, or modified when NEW DATA is found.

outhouse

You ignore the data we have, ill call BS

aa5874

It is most disturbing to me as a non-expert to find that so-called Scholars and Experts have written books about the history or non-history of Jesus yet RELY on the so-called Pauline writings without first establishing the credibility, authenticity and date of authorship of any letter by credible corroborative source of antiquity.

Most appalling and without excuse is that Acts of the Apostles, a most blatant work of fiction, is used by these so-called Experts and Historians to date the Pauline activities.

This is completely UNACCEPTABLE.

If people call themselves Experts, Scholars and Historians then they MUST act responsibly and perform according to the Profession.

The so-called Pauline writings when examined have NOTHING at all to date them internally.

There is only an ambiguous passage in 2 Cor. 11.32-33, the very last 2 verses, where the writer BLURTS out that he was NOT lying when he claimed he was in a basket during the reign of Aretas the King.

But, which King Aretas is he talking about???

This is most astonishing!!! The so-called Pauline writer left virtually NO clue at all when he wrote any of his letters.

Where was the Pauline writer when he wrote his letter to the Romans, the Corinthians, the Thesallonians, the Ephesians, the Collosians, the Philippians???? Where was Paul???

We have NO answer!!!

It is like all evidence to date the Pauline writings internally have been CLINICALLY stripped.

We cannot continue to allow so-called Experts to use Acts of the Apostles to date the Pauline letters.

No expert, no historian, can say when Acts of the Apostles was written or who actually wrote it. The very first time we hear about Acts of the Apostles is from a guy, Irenaeus, who did NOT even know when Jesus was crucified and did NOT know when Pilate was governor of Judea.

Acts of the Apostles is NOT credible and the very Bright Light story of SAUL is Fiction.

I cannot any longer accept Acts as history and no longer accept Acts as a corroborative source for the dating of the Pauline activities in the so-called Pauline letters.

The author of Acts did NOT even claim Paul wrote letters to churches and Acts may have been written at least 180 years AFTER the Fall of the Temple.

In the Entire NT Canon there is ZERO corroboration for the Pauline letters.

Experts, Scholars and Historians MUST understand that we can no longer accept mediocrity.

There is NO such thing as authentic Pauline writings.

Experts, Historians and Scholars must wake up and do some work.

Mankind deserve better.

Fiction writers like the author of Acts and the Pauline letters must be Exposed.

Let us do history.

la70119

One would think that writings of Marcion would have been found in the Oxyrrhinchus trashpile, but as far as I know, so far there have been none.

Duvduv

Absolutely nothing of the writings of Marcion exist, and yet whole sandcastles have been built about him, his followers, what they believed and what they didn't believe, particular in a particular direction of what can only be described as based on unsubstantiated propaganda.

aa5874

Well, we have manuscripts of the Pauline letters that have survived and they are dated to the mid 2nd-3rd century and there are also fragments dated to the 2nd century with the Jesus story so the Jesus cult did NOT or was unlikely to have started in the 4th century.

Do you now understand that it is also propaganda that the Jesus cult was started in the 4th century based on the dated evidence of the Jesus stories that EXIST???

It is quite remarkable that you accuse some of unsubstantiated propaganda when the dated evidence suggests you may be doing the very same thing.

The available dated evidence at this present time supports ONE theory that Jesus, the disciples and Paul most likely did NOT exist before c 70 CE and/or had ZERO influence on the Roman Empire including Judea.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stament_papyri

Duvduv

Again, I repeat. Nothing is known first-hand of the teachings of Marcion or his alleged followers aside from the claims of the propagandists. There is no evidence of his writings, correspondence, teachings, manuscripts, any communities, laws, or anything else at a time when some mainstream sources claim there were only 50,000 to 100,000 adherents of "Christianity" total, which would be very generous. So it doesn't pay to get too invested in the claims of the heresiologists and the implications they offer.

aa5874

Again your claim is erroneous. Justin Martyr did state that Marcion was ALIVE at around the time he composed "First Apology" and made a brief statement about the teaching of Marcion.

Justin Martyr is a FIRST HAND source for Marcion.

First Apology"First Apology'LVIII Justin Martyr the FIRST HAND source for Marcion claim he TAUGHT his disciples about ANOTHER God as the Creator and ANOTHER Son.

This is also corroborated by Ephraim the Syrian in his prose "Against Marcion".

Ephraim's Third Prose Against Marcion

Duvduv

AA. give me a break. Please stop grasping at straws. The whole world turns on Justin in the 2nd century. So what if "he" makes brief mention of Marcion? Does he mention a SINGLE thing Marcion ever wrote? No. Does he challenge any texts that Marcion claimed to have? No. Does Justin mention the "Paul" that academics and the early propagandists claim Marcion knew about? No.

I really wish you and others would realize that Justin is a very poor hook to hang 2nd century "Christianity" on.

The Apology says NOTHING about an alleged Christian community in the 2nd century. It says NOTHING about Justin's leaders, predecessors, teachers, or any of the Old Man's. Nothing about any communities. He doesn't MENTION A SINGLE NAME of an apostle whose memoirs he claims are theirs.

It is clear that the Apology was written early in the emergence of the Christian sect in the world of the Byzantian regime BEFORE the gospel versions emerged and before the epistles emerged.

It was a poor attempt at a philosophical tract simply backdated to the 2nd century addressed to a second century emperor to give the impression of antiquity and significance. The author COULDN'T talk about leaders, predecessors, teachers, communities in the 2nd century because THERE WERE NONE.