MxM111

As I put in another thread, here is simple example
Suppose that there is another time (time prime) where the god can make it's decision about creating this time.

That time can be either cyclic (and thus needs not to be created) or just considered to be part of the god.

Draygomb

Common Rebuttals And Why They Fail

God Isn’t Conscious
Why Worship Something That Can’t Even Know You Exist

God Isn’t TFC
Why Worship A Fellow Caused Being

TFC Doesn’t Exist ie Time Has Always Existed
Infinite Causal Regression has been disproved
That leaves us with Finite Looping Time
Which Means All Of Time Has Always Existed
Thus Nothing Could Have Been Created
No Creation = No Creator

God Transcends Logic
Which Is Just A Fancy Way Of Saying God Is Illogical And Can’t Exist

Change Doesn’t Require Time
Change Does Require Time Go Look It Up

God Doesn’t Need To Change To Make The Conscious Decision To Create Time
If God Doesn’t Change When Making A Decision Then No Decision Was Really Made

Our Time Is An Offshoot Of God’s Time
Then The Real First Cause Of Our Time Is TFC Of God’s Time

God Transcends Time
If God is Always aware of every Moment of Time Then All Of Time Has Always Existed
Thus Nothing Could Have Been Created
No Creation = No Creator

MxM111

Why worship anything? Why worship TFC?

And if that time (time prime) is the part of the God, by definition? And God in that time have always existed together with time being part of it?

Alternatevely that time just did not have TFC. But our space-time-matter still does.

Draygomb

God Transcends Time
If God is Always aware of every Moment of Time Then All Of Time Has Always Existed
Thus Nothing Could Have Been Created
No Creation = No Creator
No, If God's Time doesn't have TFC then neither does ours.

MxM111

May be nothing significant has been created in the God's universe (not time anyway), but he may have created our space-time-matter.
Eh? Why? Is there a law that all times must be exactly the same? Even in our universe time flows differently in different parts. I do not observe anything that forbids the God's time to be different.

aguy2

Why the necessity?

What's wrong with that?
aguy2

Agnostic Theist

It seems that Draygomb is confusing metaphysics with physics by concluding the necessity of loping time from the universal actuality of looping time. Further, he has asserted that it is proven that time had a beginning, but offers no support for this whatsoever.

Quetzalcoatl

It seems you are confusing metaphysics will reality. Your argument basically boils down to if we ignore reality it is possible that god exists. Well whoopty doo! This is something that even children understand. It’s called make belief.

Why do you even think what you are arguing has any intellectual content. Of course if we allow magical beings into our analysis anything is possible. You laugh at creationist for using this argument and then you turn around and use it.

With magic all things are possible. You win.

Agnostic Theist

OK, let me simplify things for you.

Even assuming that our time is a one dimensional looped, caused system, it did not have to be this way pre-creation. Draygomb is applying the contingent laws of time as presently is (apparently) as necessary laws of reality in order to assert that the relation between God and time must be the same as the relation between our time and us. This is wholly unsupported and until he proves it, his paradox is going nowhere.

ETA - And that you confuse metaphysics with magic quite clearly demonstrates that you have no authority to make a comment on metaphysical issues.

Quetzalcoatl

In other words god is a magical being that is not bounded by our reality

I already stated that I agree with you. If you want to postulate a magical being that is not bounded by reality then yes no one can disprove this being. The question is why do you think your argument has any intellectual content?

What’s wrong with the following the following?

You need to tone down your arrogance. It is quite clear that you are speaking on issues you have no clue about. Concepts of time and space are physical concepts. They are not some metaphysical abstraction. Using philosophy and theology to discuss these concepts is just as daft as using philosophy and theology to discuss evolution.