Freethought & Rationalism Archive

wala · 05-11-2005, 05:04 AM

The Absurdity of Christianity

GAL 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I find the entire Christian idea that people are saved by believing
that a specific event happened 2,000 years ago, rather than living a
decent life and treating other people well, to be completely
ludicrous, because it actually REMOVES responsibility for one's own
actions.

Think about it: Good people would be sent to Hell simply for not
believing that a man lived and died 2,000 years ago, and all of the
Christians would go to Heaven - including some murderers, rapists, and
child molestors. Would you want to spend eternity with them?

For those of you that have non-Christian relatives and/or friends,
would you enjoy your eternal reward, or would you be constantly
troubled by your loved ones' suffering?

I'd rather be with the non-Christians and take the punishment with
them.

Bumper Sticker

DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro�*m his own
wrath ! (Author unknown)

ManM · 05-11-2005, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wala

I find the entire Christian idea that people are saved by believing
that a specific event happened 2,000 years ago, rather than living a
decent life and treating other people well, to be completely
ludicrous, because it actually REMOVES responsibility for one's own
actions.

Early Christians did not believe this. And yes, it is a rediculous idea.

Matt the Medic · 05-11-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManM

Early Christians did not believe this. And yes, it is a rediculous idea.

ManM, I'm starting to like you more with each post. I would recommend you to start your own denomination of Christianity that lives by these ideals but I think the UU's do a pretty good job of ditching all the cult mentality crap and living the best life one can already.

ManM · 05-11-2005, 06:52 AM

Well, thanks.

The great thing is that I don't have to start my own denomination. I'm just parroting the stuff the Fathers of my Church have been teaching for 2000 years.

IamMoose · 05-11-2005, 08:51 AM

What did early xians believe?

Yeah i always wonder how my xian friends can, you know, bear to be friends with me when they believe I am gonna fry for all eternity. There's a really weird hypocrisy there you know? I mean, I say I've got flu and they're all genuinely sympathetic and wish that I will get well again soon but if I dropped dead tomorrow then they'd mentally consign me to hell and that would be that. Weird shit.

motorhead · 05-11-2005, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManM

Well, thanks.

The great thing is that I don't have to start my own denomination. I'm just parroting the stuff the Fathers of my Church have been teaching for 2000 years.

Do you mean the Fathers of the Catholic/Orthodox Church? If so, can you prove how these fathers taught differently than what is taught today in mainstream Catholicism/Evangelical Christianity? I think the Fathers taught the basics of the faith, which comes from the NT, as mainstream Catholicism and Evangelicals teach the faith today. Can you show some differences between what was taught then and what is taught today?

Hedshaker · 05-11-2005, 10:03 AM

Here's a post I lifted off another board because I thought it was amusing. I had the notion of printing a few copies out to hand the JW's when they come a knocking. Enjoy

Quote:

Imagine you’re God.

You create the universe, then Adam and Eve, and they are perfect beings. You place them in a lush garden, into which you’ve also made a special tree. The fruit of this tree, if eaten by a human, will cause them to understand “right from wrong�?, and they will thus lose their perfection (why you created such a tree is unclear, but that’s another story). At some point, you also created a sneaky snake and put it proximate to your first children. Snakes, being what they are, it’s not long before Eve is duped into eating the fruit, and she then proceeds to peer pressure Adam into eating it as well.

Returning from wherever you were, you cannot find Adam and Eve straight away – after some searching, you find them hiding their naked bodies from you. This strikes you as odd because they wouldn’t be hiding if they weren’t ashamed/embarrassed – you’re on to them – they probably ate the fruit. Sure enough, after some probing, they come clean and admit their bad deed. This makes you mad, and so you curse all snakes with a belly crawling existence (which they don’t seem to mind too much – snakes do quite well as a species), you make it such that Eve, and all women hence, will experience great pain during childbirth (why you chose that punishment is not clear – how does knowing right from wrong translate to something about the 24 hours or so of labor?), and your punishment for man is that he will have to work for life’s necessities – as opposed to just sitting around in Eden.

So, many years later, the many descendants of A&E are running around acting really badly. Not believing in you, fornicating, just being jerks. This makes you really mad, and so to punish them, and set an example for future people, you drown millions of men, women, and children, and also millions of animals. You spare a few humans, and two of every kind of animal (presumably because you didn’t want to have to create them again…which you could have done).

In time, the earth repopulates itself. Humans once again act badly, but for some reason, you pay particular attention to those living in a very specific area of the globe – the middle east. Over a few centuries, you do all kinds of things like kill or have killed hundreds of thousands of people who do bad things such as not believing in you and having sex. Presumably this is to set the example of how bad it is to not believe in you, and that sex (or even thinking about it) is filthy under anything but very specific conditions.

This still doesn’t seem to work, so you finally decide to go down there yourself – but you don’t want to just poof in like a great genie (cuz if you made your existence too obvious, you’d take the faith out of faith). So, you resolve to go down as a common man. Once down there, you cruise around for a while, in your early 20’s you preach a lot, particularly about how important you are, and how important it is to believe in you. To kick up the ante a bit, let people know you are who you say you are, you perform a miracle or two – here and there. Some believe, but still others don’t. So, you head into Jerusalem and stir things up by angering the Jews and Romans – simply by claiming to be you. So they torture and “kill�? you. Being unkillable, you bide your time for a few days and then reappear. This is supposed to have the effect of REALLY making people believe you are who you say you are, and that your message is Truth and Goodness. Before you leave, you tell a few people that you’ll be back again real soon – sooner than a generation or two. Since you didn’t return, you presumably did this as yet another test of humans dedication to you.

All while this is going on, the Devil is racing about tricking people into not believing in you and doing bad things. It’s not clear why you don’t put an end to the Devil, but the likely reason is that you want to see which humans are of strong enough character to not be tricked by him (which itself is puzzling because you made the humans and their character, and you presumably “know�? the past, present, and future anyway).

Once back in heaven, you kick back for a while and see how the humans will take the message you gave when you came down to earth. Things start slowly, your earliest fans are fed to lions by the Romans, but your message is taken up by the poor and downtrodden, who are sick and tired of the elitist, powerful Romans. A few centuries go by, the pagan Roman destroys itself, and with a man named Constantine, your message becomes seated at the top of human power. But, people being people, there is much argument/debate over what your message really is, and how it should be applied. You watch as the drama unfolds – centuries go by and your message is taken to every corner of the earth (usually at the expense of the cultures that existed prior). Great factions with differing opinions of your message manifest themselves.

Incidentally, you never really seemed to pay much attention to people like Asians, Africans, Australians, Island peoplels, Native Americans, etc. At least not in the sense of mentioning these people in the Bible, or giving them the same set of rules as you gave Jewish people (actually, you do mention some Africans in the Bible - apparently hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians deserved to be killed because they didn't believe in you).

Anywho, the human condition will apparently go on for a while, some people will believe in you, some won’t. And one day, as you promised in the early first century, you’ll return, all evil will be destroyed, those humans who believe/believed in you will live in great everlasting peace with you, and those who didn’t, won’t (which will presumably suck bad for them).

And….sooooo….thennnn…..yeah….you did all that cuz why again? When you look back in retrospect, you kinda wonder what you were thinking?? Were you just bored? Did you make your children, the humans, for your entertainment? Why did you focus your attention so narrowly when you went down to earth? Why didn’t you spend more time down there? When you look back you think to yourself – You know, I am all about being perfect in everything, especially love. I guess it wasn’t the best decision to create these poor, helpless creatures, the humans, in such a manner that not all of them could experience my perfect love. A wise father treats ALL his children with respect and love, unconditionally, even if they don’t agree with his views – after all, it was HIS decision to bring them into the world. A wise father doesn’t disown a child who disagrees with him, or otherwise doesn’t follow his “rules�?. And a wise father certainly doesn’t kill his children for doing these things.

You imagine you’d do it better next time.

An unknown poster somewhere in cyber space :thumbs:

Gnostic Priest · 05-11-2005, 04:25 PM

Based on what of read from the bible and from some Christian websites one must be sorry for their sins to be forgiven. All but a few Christians are sorry for their sins as if they were they would rarely sin at all. If Jesus was to forgive his followers no matter how they feel about their sins then he wouldn't of used up so much time telling them what not to do in the NT.

I have yet to hear "your going to hell" from someone who isn't.

Godkiller · 05-11-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wala

I find the entire Christian idea that people are saved by believing
that a specific event happened 2,000 years ago, rather than living a
decent life and treating other people well, to be completely
ludicrous, because it actually REMOVES responsibility for one's own
actions.

As utterly absurd and morally repugnant as that may sound, it is actually what many people literally believe. My best friend, for instance, believes that having been "saved" by belief in Jebus completely absolves him from future responsibility for any crime (including murder and rape). Most X-ians believe a somewhat milder form of this 'ethical pardigm', i.e. so long as you ask Jebus for forgiveness before you die, you will go to heaven. My father, for instance, believes that a mass-murdering tyrant who accepts Jebus on his deathbed will go to heaven, whereas an atheist physician who devises a cure for cancer will burn in hell for all eternity. What's most ironic and disquieting is that these are the people who equate atheism with immorality.

Barefoot Bree · 05-12-2005, 08:39 AM

Orbit, or whoever that unknown poster was:

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

That's right up there with Kissing Hank's Ass.

05-11-2005, 05:04 AM	#1
wala Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: ape town Posts: 169	The Absurdity of Christianity The Absurdity of Christianity GAL 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. I find the entire Christian idea that people are saved by believing that a specific event happened 2,000 years ago, rather than living a decent life and treating other people well, to be completely ludicrous, because it actually REMOVES responsibility for one's own actions. Think about it: Good people would be sent to Hell simply for not believing that a man lived and died 2,000 years ago, and all of the Christians would go to Heaven - including some murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Would you want to spend eternity with them? For those of you that have non-Christian relatives and/or friends, would you enjoy your eternal reward, or would you be constantly troubled by your loved ones' suffering? I'd rather be with the non-Christians and take the punishment with them. Bumper Sticker DIVINE INSANITY God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro�*m his own wrath ! (Author unknown)

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05-11-2005, 06:52 AM	#4
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	Well, thanks. The great thing is that I don't have to start my own denomination. I'm just parroting the stuff the Fathers of my Church have been teaching for 2000 years.

05-11-2005, 08:51 AM	#5
IamMoose Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: On the fringes of the Lake District, UK Posts: 9,528	What did early xians believe? Yeah i always wonder how my xian friends can, you know, bear to be friends with me when they believe I am gonna fry for all eternity. There's a really weird hypocrisy there you know? I mean, I say I've got flu and they're all genuinely sympathetic and wish that I will get well again soon but if I dropped dead tomorrow then they'd mentally consign me to hell and that would be that. Weird shit.

05-11-2005, 04:25 PM	#8
Gnostic Priest Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 119	Based on what of read from the bible and from some Christian websites one must be sorry for their sins to be forgiven. All but a few Christians are sorry for their sins as if they were they would rarely sin at all. If Jesus was to forgive his followers no matter how they feel about their sins then he wouldn't of used up so much time telling them what not to do in the NT. I have yet to hear "your going to hell" from someone who isn't.

05-12-2005, 08:39 AM	#10
Barefoot Bree Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: East of ginger trees Posts: 12,637	Orbit, or whoever that unknown poster was: :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy That's right up there with Kissing Hank's Ass.

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