Doctor X

That is how one responds without fallacy.

Topic

Methinks it has disappeared since the originator has disappeared. The bottom line is one cannot prove the existence of Big Daddy throught the affirmation of Junior and his works because one cannot affirm his works, nor can he affirm his divinity.

--J.D.

Toto

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Dionysos by Kerenyi - from that page click on "Dionysos: archetypal image of indestructible life"

"The Mysteries of Mithra" by Franz Cumont (a little outdated - check David Ulansey's webpage, although I understand this has also been challenged.)

The Bacchae of Euripides: A New Version

Radcliffe Emerson

Like the old joke, if Jesus was born in the Middle East, why does he have a Spanish name?

Gregg

Well, The Jesus Puzzle addresses that question. Belief in dying/rising savior gods was common in the Roman Empire at that time. Also there was a widespread belief in the Logos, a Greek concept, an intermediary between God and man. The Logos concept got hooked up with the Jewish Messiah and the Suffering Servant of Isaiah, as well as the dying/rising savior god concept, and presto, you have Yeshua Christos, the Annointed Savior.

So the ground was already prepared for Christianity. Jews were all over the Empire and people were already familiar with that faith and its sacred writings. The Middle East was a crossroads of the Empire, not a backwater. Roads were good and travel was relatively easy.

Anyway, even if Jesus existed and was exactly who he said he was, that isn't some sort of magical explanation for why Christianity spread so "quickly," if one believes that three decades after the death of Jesus is "quick." Other faiths, which you apparently believe are false, have spread pretty quickly too--including Islam and Mormonism. Surely they must be true if they spread so quickly?

And can you explain why Christianity has failed to make much of an inroad into Asia?

Biff the unclean

No "J" sound?
I'll bet Julius Caesar, the emperor Julian, Jupiter, Juno, Jana, Janus, Justitia, Juturna and Juventas were all wondering why no one could pronounce their names, by Jove

Toto

The ancient Romans pronounced those names as starting with a 'Y' sound as they would be pronounced in German.

Is Huggy Bear still around, and does he or she care about this thread?

Haran

Beat me to it. Thanks, Toto!

In latin, Julius is spelled with an "I" as there was no "J" - "Iulius".
As Toto pointed out, it was a "Y" sound. "Iulius" Caesar would probably have sounded something like "YOO-lee-us". I'm sure you can work out the rest of the names.

Llyricist

Any reason that words spelled for a "Y" sound were translated to english words with a "J" sound? (and spanish words with an "h" sound?, especially since spanish is latin based language).

Just curious.

on edit: I am asking particularly about proper nouns, I can understand other words going through the vageries of pronunciation, but proper nouns?

rlogan

This has been a very interesting post to follow, and I especially enjoyed some of the reference material. The second reference by Spencer on pg 1 was hilarious. You've not even let Huggy Bear out of the gate.

I've learned so much but on the other hand I know so little. I was already forming the distinct impression that Jr. was mostly Myth. But if Peter Kirby is buying the partial Josephus entry (doctored, but initially present) - then I'm not ready to commit to full myth. Were the two references in Josephus to fail then there's just nothing there at all.

Lanakila

In the process of deconverting here, but an excellent book that helped open my eyes that the Jesus that I was worshipping is not the Historical Jesus the Nazerne (Essene) was called: The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read. My husband was reading the Jesus Puzzle as well.

I was so much like Huggybear before its uncanny reading this thread. :banghead: Debating you folks is what got me finally to open my eyes by the way, so even super fundies are not beyond hope.