Freethought & Rationalism Archive

arnoldo · 02-05-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

[
Really, read the Jeremiah 29:10 again

No need to.

Which failed - on more than one level, by the way.

He did? Wow; what an amazing claim you have cooked up here! Show your proof. You can't. :rolling:

Quote:

Try again.

No need to - you haven't done anything except toss out a new homemade claim.

Sorry, Jeremiah wasn't the false prophet, Hananniah "prophesied" that the Jews would return from Babylon after two years. Jeremiah said otherwise.

Quote:

Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from the neck of Jeremiah the prophet and broke it. 11 Hananiah spoke in the presence of all the people, saying, “Thus says the LORD, ‘Even so will I break within two full years the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all the nations.’” Then the prophet Jeremiah went his way.
Then Jeremiah the prophet said to Hananiah the prophet, “Listen now, Hananiah, the LORD has not sent you, and you have made this people trust in a lie. 16 “Therefore thus says the LORD, ‘Behold, I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This year you are going to die, because you have counseled rebellion against the LORD.’”
17 So Hananiah the prophet died in the same year in the seventh month. Jer 28

History proved the the Jews spent more than a "few years" in Babylon. Besides you have no idea of the beginning or ending of the 70 years or even a clue what kind of calendar was used. Try again.

arnoldo · 02-05-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

At the same time no evidence has been provided that the ENTIRE BOOK OF DANIEL was written between 167-164 BC...

That is simply false. Your refusal to seriously consider the evidence that has been put forth changes nothing.

There is no evidence, only *claims*

Sheshonq · 02-05-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

No need to.

Which failed - on more than one level, by the way.

He did? Wow; what an amazing claim you have cooked up here! Show your proof. You can't. :rolling:

No need to - you haven't done anything except toss out a new homemade claim.

Sorry, Jeremiah wasn't the false prophet,

What does this have to do with your new homemade claim about Nebuchadnezzar taking Jews before the destruction of Jerusalem?

Answer: nothing. That was your claim, not Jeremiah's.

As for Jeremiah being a false prophet -- you're sadly, terribly confused. I never made any such argument; maybe you're thinking of someone else? All I said was that the 70 year claim was wrong.

Quote:

Hananniah "prophesied" that the Jews would return from Babylon after two years. Jeremiah said otherwise.

Who cares? They were both wrong. It wasn't 70 years; it was 48 years. Moreover, only a handful of Jews went to Babylon anyhow; the vast majority never left Palestine.

Quote:

History proved the the Jews spent more than a "few years" in Babylon.

Wrong. History shows that a handful of Jews spent only 48 years there, not 70.

Quote:

Besides you have no idea of the beginning or ending of the 70 years or even a clue what kind of calendar was used. Try again.

1. Yes I do. The beginning was the destruction of the Temple. The end was the decree allowing the Jews to return.

2. No calendar is going to create an additional 22 years for you. Result? PROPHECY FAILS! :rolling:

Sheshonq · 02-05-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

That is simply false. Your refusal to seriously consider the evidence that has been put forth changes nothing.

There is no evidence, only *claims*

Which is another lie, arnoldo. You were given the evidence - in spin's post, for example - yet you failed to even read it, much less comment on it.

arnoldo · 02-05-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

No need to.

Which failed - on more than one level, by the way.

He did? Wow; what an amazing claim you have cooked up here! Show your proof. You can't. :rolling:

No need to - you haven't done anything except toss out a new homemade claim.

Sorry, Jeremiah wasn't the false prophet,

What does this have to do with your new homemade claim about Nebuchadnezzar taking Jews before the destruction of Jerusalem?

Answer: nothing. That was your claim, not Jeremiah's.

I doubt you have ever read the book of Jeremiah but here is the info you requested. Jer 52

Quote:

These are the people whom Nebuchadnezzar carried away into exile: in the seventh year 3,023 Jews; 29 in the eighteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar 832 persons from Jerusalem; 30 in the twenty-third year of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried into exile 745 Jewish people; there were 4,600 persons in all.

Please give the specific verse in Jeremiah where it states the 70 years will start once the temple is destroyed and end is the decree when they return. Of course you can't because all you make are *claims*

Sheshonq · 02-05-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

I doubt you have ever read the book of Jeremiah

I have.

Quote:

but here is the info you requested. Jer 52

No, the information I requested was for you to support your claim that Nebuchadnezzar started carrying Jews away BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.

BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.
BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.
BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.

Get it?

The verses you quoted do not prove it happened BEFORE the destruction of the Temple. In fact, the preceding verses quite plainly state:

Quote:

JER 52:12 Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem,
JER 52:13 And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:
JER 52:14 And all the army of the Chaldeans, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down all the walls of Jerusalem round about.
JER 52:15 Then Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried away captive certain of the poor of the people, and the residue of the people that remained in the city, and those that fell away, that fell to the king of Babylon, and the rest of the multitude.
JER 52:16 But Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard left certain of the poor of the land for vinedressers and for husbandmen.
JER 52:17 Also the pillars of brass that were in the house of the LORD, and the bases, and the brasen sea that was in the house of the LORD, the Chaldeans brake, and carried all the brass of them to Babylon.
JER 52:18 The caldrons also, and the shovels, and the snuffers, and the bowls, and the spoons, and all the vessels of brass wherewith they ministered, took they away.
JER 52:19 And the basons, and the firepans, and the bowls, and the caldrons, and the candlesticks, and the spoons, and the cups; that which was of gold in gold, and that which was of silver in silver, took the captain of the guard away.
JER 52:20 The two pillars, one sea, and twelve brasen bulls that were under the bases, which king Solomon had made in the house of the LORD: the brass of all these vessels was without weight.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR OWN BIBLE.
YOU DON'T EVEN READ THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSES YOU QUOTE.
THE PEOPLE WERE CARRIED AWAY AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE.
NOT BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION, AS YOUR HOME-MADE BULLSHIT CLAIM STATED.

Sheshonq · 02-05-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Please give the specific verse in Jeremiah where it states the 70 years will start once the temple is destroyed and end is the decree when they return.

You're the one who claims that the 70 year prophecy was fulfilled. You claimed first; you get to prove your case first.

After you fail to do so -- which is pretty inevitable -- then I'll present my case.

arnoldo · 02-05-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

I doubt you have ever read the book of Jeremiah

I have.

No, the information I requested was for you to support your claim that Nebuchadnezzar started carrying Jews away BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.

BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.
BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.
BEFORE the destruction of the Temple.

Get it?

The verses you quoted do not prove it happened BEFORE the destruction of the Temple. In fact, the preceding verses quite plainly state:

Quote:

JER 52:12 Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem,
JER 52:13 And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:
JER 52:14 And all the army of the Chaldeans, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down all the walls of Jerusalem round about.
JER 52:15 Then Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried away captive certain of the poor of the people, and the residue of the people that remained in the city, and those that fell away, that fell to the king of Babylon, and the rest of the multitude.
JER 52:16 But Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard left certain of the poor of the land for vinedressers and for husbandmen.
JER 52:17 Also the pillars of brass that were in the house of the LORD, and the bases, and the brasen sea that was in the house of the LORD, the Chaldeans brake, and carried all the brass of them to Babylon.
JER 52:18 The caldrons also, and the shovels, and the snuffers, and the bowls, and the spoons, and all the vessels of brass wherewith they ministered, took they away.
JER 52:19 And the basons, and the firepans, and the bowls, and the caldrons, and the candlesticks, and the spoons, and the cups; that which was of gold in gold, and that which was of silver in silver, took the captain of the guard away.
JER 52:20 The two pillars, one sea, and twelve brasen bulls that were under the bases, which king Solomon had made in the house of the LORD: the brass of all these vessels was without weight.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR OWN BIBLE.
YOU DON'T EVEN READ THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSES YOU QUOTE.
THE PEOPLE WERE CARRIED AWAY AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE.
NOT BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION, AS YOUR HOME-MADE BULLSHIT CLAIM STATED.

Here is a source, read the history of the various deportations of Jewish exiles to Babylon

http://www.bible-history.com/map_bab...yclopedia.html

arnoldo · 02-05-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Please give the specific verse in Jeremiah where it states the 70 years will start once the temple is destroyed and end is the decree when they return.

You're the one who claims that the 70 year prophecy was fulfilled. You claimed first; you get to prove your case first.

After you fail to do so -- which is pretty inevitable -- then I'll present my case.

Post #461 gives the context that the Jewish exile in babylon was fulfilled, False prophets told the Jews in captivity not too worry, they would soon return back to Israel. Jeremiah told the jews to prepare for a long stay in babylon. Of course you have no claim whatsoever to state "prophecy fails."

Amaleq13 · 02-05-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

That is simply false. Your refusal to seriously consider the evidence that has been put forth changes nothing.

There is no evidence, only *claims*

Wrong again. The evidence is the text and the established events which that text appears to accurately describe.

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