maryhelena

Here is an idea.

If, as seems likely now, Josephus knew that Philo' Essenes were a spiritual construct, a Platonic form, an Idea, an Ideal - then, was he not, in attempting a 'historical' reconstruction, doing a bit more than simply making Philo' vision a sort of prophetic realization or fulfillment.

In so doing, has he not in actuallity, turned the tables on Philo? A reversal of sorts - taken the Essenes from Philo' spiritual realm and set them down in a real 'historical' setting. Brought them down to earth, so to speak. Hence, upholding reality, the actual human physical body, as the supreme value.

Josephus not only brings Philo’ Platonic Essenes down to earth, he has some of them marrying and having children, carrying weapons to protect themselves, and eating meat - and living long lives. Paradise now - a literal, earthly Utopia, not the escape hatch of living in some alternative, Platonic, reality.

Why Josephus wanted to do this is the BIG question...

A bit like the NT..........the gospel Jesus the rear guard action to Paul's Cosmic Christ

Clivedurdle

There might be no connection with Qumran, but I have no problem with a pacifist vegetarian Jewish group as well - please explain the archaeology.

The fact that there were Buddhist missionaries there as well makes this more likely.

bacht

For Josephus the villains of the 1st C were the Zealots and radicals who forced Rome to destroy Palestine. Maybe he wanted to present a contrast for Hellenized readers, some "kinder gentler" Jews more like Greek philosophers/ascetics (ie. nationalistic propaganda)

maryhelena

Maybe....

I think there is going to be a lot of ‘maybe’ in regard to what Josephus was up to with his story line about the Essenes.......

Whatever his intent was, and that intent must surely be more than an impartial review of the local history of the time- 12 out of 14 paragraphs in ‘War’ deal with the Essenes, 1 paragraph the introduction and 1, only 1, paragraph dealing with both the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Josephus ‘War’, book 2, ch.V111 - edition by Pickering and Inglis 1960).

There is a very strange detail that Josephus relates about the Essenes - a strange detail that, on face, value, does contradict his general view of the Essenes:
And yet......
A pacifist community the subject of such a persecution?

Is there any record of the Romans waging some kind of genocide against a peace loving community? Is Josephus suggesting that the Essenes were singled out for some sort of special persecution by the Romans? Or is he suggesting that they gave up everything they believed in and took up arms to fight the Romans? And yet he says in Ant.Book XV111, ch.1 par 5:
Undoubtedly, Rachel Elior’ position on the Essenes, that they were an invention by Josephus, is going to get lots of attacks from other DSS scholars - and many others no doubt. Great publicity for the upcoming book!

On one level her position regarding the Essenes is not unlike the position held by the mythicist camp regarding Jesus of Nazareth - both positions seek to challenge the consensus - and very interestingly, both positions seek to take Josephus to task! From the mythicist position, the gospel writers have placed a mythological man within a historical time period - and has not Josephus done exactly the same with the Essenes? The gospel writers took the OT Messianic Ideal and produced a mythological man within a historical setting. Josephus has taken Philo’ Platonic Essenes, his Ideal community, and produced a ‘historical’ community of Essenes.

So, it could very well be that the Essenes have been a time bomb waiting to discharge their very potent message........

mountainman

The Romans waged war and conquest on everyone.
Which century are you shining your torch on?

Especially if there is good cause to suspect that the gospel writers and/or editor(s) corrupted and/or perverted and/or interpolated Josephus. And in his article The Coincidences of the Emmaus Narrative of Luke and the Testimonium Flavianum (1995), Gary Goldberg points out that the interpolator may have been heavily influenced by Luke.

maryhelena

Which century? The one Josephus was eye witness to....
Indeed, looks like there is a big connection between Luke and Josephus! - Richard Carrier has a good article on this.

Toto

This sound suspiciously like Christian martyrdom. Was it the model for later Christian martyrs, or did later Christians insert this?

andrewcriddle

I suspect both Josephus and some later Christian accounts of martyrdom may have been influenced by the various books of the Maccabees.

Andrew Criddle

maryhelena

Or maybe a play on the suffering servant in Isaiah 53:7.

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb he was led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth".

Perhaps Josephus, having invented the Essenes as a historical community, wanted, post 70 c.e. to have them disappear......hence the persecution....

maryhelena

Josephus mentions 4 individual Essenes. Three of these men are credited with prophecy. Josephus’ Essenes, in contrast to Philo’ version, are renowned for their ability to foretell the future.

The first of these Essenes, Judas, can be dated to 104/103 BC - the last Essene, John, can be dated to 67 CE. A time period of around 170 years.

Judas the Essene: 104/103 BC.
Ant.13, book 11, par 2.

Judas, ‘who never missed the truth in his predictions”, predicted the death of Antigonus = who was killed in 104/103 BC.

Menahem the Essene: 34 BC
Ant.15, book 10, par 5.

Menahem, “who had the foreknowledge of future events given him by God”, made a prophecy concerning Herod the Great, that he would rule another 30 years. Herod dies in 4 b.c. - 30 years back to the prophecy in 34 b.c.

Simon the Essene: 6 CE.
Ant. 18, book 13, par 2.

Simon “a man of the sect of the Essenes, desired to speak his mind freely, and said, that the vision denoted a change in the affairs of Archelaus, and that not for the better...” Archelaus had a dream of 10 ears of corn. He rule ended 6 CE after 10 years of rule.

John the Essene: 67 CE.
War book 2, ch. 20, par 4.

John, a general appointed to “the toparchy of Thamma, Lydda was also added to his portion, and Joppa and Emmaus”. This being prior to the fall at Jotapata in 67 CE when Josephus was taken prisoner.

Any attempt to depict the Essenes as unhistorical has to deal with these four individuals. One could just say that Josephus was simply adding to his story line - and hence placing Essenes in different time periods just for effect. Or, one can look upon these date stamped Essenes as being only incidental to the story line - the real story line being the historical dates to which they have been placed as prophetic markers. All the dates to which these unhistorical Essenes have been attached to are dates that have significance for Jewish history - hence for prophetic interpretation of that history.

Consider, for instance, the year 6 CE - the year of the dream interpreted by Simon the Essene. That year is 70 years from the 63 BC - the year Pompey entered the Holy of Holies of the Jerusalem Temple. It is also 170 years from 164 BC, the year the Temple was rededicated under Judas Maccabeus.

Josephus placed his prophetic Essenes within a different 170 year cycle than that connected with 6 CE. He seeks to use this significant past historical time frame as a model for considering the significance of the present - he backtracks an application of these 170 years from 67 CE to 104/103 BC. Basically, looking back in time from where he is standing now - to discern through a prophetic eye what can be interpreted from these years.

Josephus has his 170 years beginning in 104/103 BC with the murder of Antigonus ,and the prophecy of the Judas the Essene, and ending in 67 CE, at the siege of Jotapata, At which time, another prophecy was made, this time by Josephus himself, concerning Vespasian. (War, Book 2, ch.8, par.9.).

The time period Josephus sets down between the prophecy of Judas regarding Antigonus and the prophecy of Menahem regarding Herod the Great, is 70 years.

Three Essene prophets - and one Essene general?

John the Essene, an Essene turned traitor to the Essene cause by becoming a general in the war effort?? Or was this Josephus being a bit ironical here. On one level, Josephus’ agenda needed an Essene prophet for 67 CE - (at the end of his 170 year time period for placing prophets). On another level he needed to end his attempt at making the Essene prophets historical. He needed, so to speak, to write them off. Hence, Josephus, himself, as it were, traded places with John the Essene. Josephus takes up the prophetic mantle - and John the Essene is left standing as a traitor to the Essene world view - and to the machinations of the Jewish/Roman war.

Josephus found the year 6 CE to be of particular interest - being 170 years from the 164 BC rededication of the Temple. The gospel writer Luke, likewise, found the year 6 CE to be of interest. Luke also found the 70 year prophetic time frames of interest i.e. his linking the 14th year of Tiberius in 29 CE to the 40 BC rule of Lysanias of Abilene.

Whatever else Josephus was up to with all of this, on one basic level, it could be said that he simply wanted to show that prophecy had not ended with the great prophets of old.......Josephus was still a relatively young man, in 93/4 CE when he published his full work on Jewish history - around 57 years of age. For a man who has shown himself to be so keenly interested in prophetic fulfilment of prophecy - it somehow seems out of character for him to spend the remaining years of his life content with mere history....................

Josephus says his Essenes "are long-lived.....many of them live above a hundred years" - looks like he actually gave them 170 prophetic years....... - 170 years in which, he, Josephus, was attempting to discern a prophetic significance....