Freethought & Rationalism Archive

vsop44 · 08-02-2007, 06:50 PM

I never read the bible , although for a short while I did study it . I remember , as a teenager , in the early sixties I went to see the movie "the bible" , and as a budding atheist then, I kind of enjoyed the end... I have read several hundred books( both fiction and non) in the last 7 years and the bible is not on my "to read" list !

Gawen · 08-02-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajela

I think the people who are calling it crap are trying to read it as if it were true. Or have childhood traumas. I mean, you don't rag on the Brothers' Grimm by saying that gingerbread is a totally stupid material to make houses from, now do you?

But we don't see people worshiping the brothers Grimm or Billy Goat's Gruff either. For a (Bible) collection of short stories, I've read better abridged stuff in Reader's Digest.

Calilasseia · 08-02-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biblethumping

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

I would say that there are more people than I expected that have read it, yes. There are still some I wonder about who have not posted yet.

If you are wondering about me, yes i've read it "cover to cover". I also enjoy reading and following the leviticus codes strictly.

So you set fire to small animals on a regular basis then?

And take all your rashes to the nearest priest?

rfmwinnie · 08-02-2007, 08:40 PM

I've read the Bible cover to cover 6 different times and all with different translations (including the Jewish version with all the commentary -- if you've never read that you can't possible understand the rest). I've read it in different orders, I've studied it, I've done everything imaginable to keep my faith in it (including studying books to help you understand the Bible so as to avoid those difficult parts)...

yet all of that just isn't enough. It is wrong on so many levels in so many ways that it can't be true.

08-02-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawen

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajela

I think the people who are calling it crap are trying to read it as if it were true. Or have childhood traumas. I mean, you don't rag on the Brothers' Grimm by saying that gingerbread is a totally stupid material to make houses from, now do you?

But we don't see people worshiping the brothers Grimm or Billy Goat's Gruff either.

Well, exactly. That's my point. If you read it like it is - myth & poetry - then it's much more worthwhile. Sure, it doesn't have much modern style character development in the stories, but neither do most other fairy tales or myths.

Smullyan-esque · 08-02-2007, 09:38 PM

afdave: posted to this thread about 16 hours ago.

So, again I repeat:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smullyan-esque

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bloe

Dave, have you read any religious, philosophical, historical, etc texts other than the Bible? And have you read them in the same way you read the Bible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bloe

Try reading the Koran, and treating the hard parts there the same way you do the hard parts of the Bible. I'll bet you can use precisely the same techniques to come up with great explanations for them, too. In fact, I know you can, because Muslims in fact do. And it won't make the hard parts of the Koran any more really actually plausible than it makes the hard parts of the Bible.

These are important questions, afdave. Because of this, I expect you to ignore them...

-----------------------------------------
Oh, yeah. I read the whole Bible (NIV version), but it was years ago.

And.....

it looks like you ARE ignoring them.
I'll keep repeating the questions for quite a while. I can be a persistent critter, afdave.

Eldarion Lathria · 08-02-2007, 10:54 PM

Yes, I have read the Bible, all of it, in the RSV and KJV versions. I am singularly unimpressed by most of it. It has some good poetry, some valuable information about what a sixth century BCE people thought their ancestors were like, a shitload of boring crap and upwards of ten thousand lies. If it were submitted to me as a manuscript, I would recommend returning it.

Tell me, afdave, have you read Huxley's Science and Hebrew Tradition and Science and Christian Tradition, Marx's Kapital, the Rig Veda?

Eldarion Lathria.

ck1 · 08-03-2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

I would say that there are more people than I expected that have read it, yes. There are still some I wonder about who have not posted yet.

I'd wager that there are more of us who have read it than there are christians who have read it.

Good point. In fact, there is a recent book by Stephen Prothero, chair of religion dept at BU; he documents the fact that Americans know very little about religion, even their own. And apparently fundamentalist Christians are no more knowledgable than the rest of us.

Amazon link (or via: amazon.co.uk)

And Dave, have you read scriptures of any non-Christian religion?

Joan of Bark · 08-03-2007, 04:34 AM

I've read the Torah and Gospels twice (NIV and RSV). I've read the rest of it except the prophets.

As background, I was already a deconverted Christian when I started to read the "good book". At the time I just wanted to confirm the many quotes believers would throw at me regularly. I wondered for awhile if by reading it I would be 're-converted'. No chance! Reading it just confirmed for me that it's useless as a source of history or morality.

As others here have pointed out, I wish more people would read it -- we'd have a lot more atheists and agnostics in the world.

One other point: if the Bible isn't vague, ambiguous, and contradictory, why do we need so many commentaries telling us what it really says?

Calilasseia · 08-03-2007, 09:18 AM

As an aside, just to add some fuel to the fire (and press Dave to answer whether he's read anything other than the bible - given his contributions to date, I doubt it) I also have in my personal library a copy of the Penguin translation of the Koran (specifically, the translation by N.J. Dawood). Now obviously, since I'm not an Arabic scholar, I cannot determine at face value whether or not the translation is a good one (though the blurb on the back jacket indicates it is supposed to have a good provenance) but one thing I CAN determine upon reading it is this - it is a seriously scary book.

It is inordinately fond of repeating ad nauseam phrases such as "yours will be a terrible doom", and seems to take a positively sadistic delight in describing graphic tortures awaiting those who fail to conform. Not the kind of thing I'd like a child of mine to alight upon by accident, I can tell you.

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08-02-2007, 06:50 PM	#131
vsop44 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: On an icefloe off the atlantic coast of Canada Posts: 1,095	I never read the bible , although for a short while I did study it . I remember , as a teenager , in the early sixties I went to see the movie "the bible" , and as a budding atheist then, I kind of enjoyed the end... I have read several hundred books( both fiction and non) in the last 7 years and the bible is not on my "to read" list !

08-02-2007, 08:40 PM	#134
rfmwinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,494	I've read the Bible cover to cover 6 different times and all with different translations (including the Jewish version with all the commentary -- if you've never read that you can't possible understand the rest). I've read it in different orders, I've studied it, I've done everything imaginable to keep my faith in it (including studying books to help you understand the Bible so as to avoid those difficult parts)... yet all of that just isn't enough. It is wrong on so many levels in so many ways that it can't be true.

08-02-2007, 10:54 PM	#137
Eldarion Lathria Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlantis Posts: 2,449	Yes, I have read the Bible, all of it, in the RSV and KJV versions. I am singularly unimpressed by most of it. It has some good poetry, some valuable information about what a sixth century BCE people thought their ancestors were like, a shitload of boring crap and upwards of ten thousand lies. If it were submitted to me as a manuscript, I would recommend returning it. Tell me, afdave, have you read Huxley's Science and Hebrew Tradition and Science and Christian Tradition, Marx's Kapital, the Rig Veda? Eldarion Lathria.

08-03-2007, 04:34 AM	#139
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	I've read the Torah and Gospels twice (NIV and RSV). I've read the rest of it except the prophets. As background, I was already a deconverted Christian when I started to read the "good book". At the time I just wanted to confirm the many quotes believers would throw at me regularly. I wondered for awhile if by reading it I would be 're-converted'. No chance! Reading it just confirmed for me that it's useless as a source of history or morality. As others here have pointed out, I wish more people would read it -- we'd have a lot more atheists and agnostics in the world. One other point: if the Bible isn't vague, ambiguous, and contradictory, why do we need so many commentaries telling us what it really says?

08-03-2007, 09:18 AM	#140
Calilasseia Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Liverpool, UK Posts: 1,072	As an aside, just to add some fuel to the fire (and press Dave to answer whether he's read anything other than the bible - given his contributions to date, I doubt it) I also have in my personal library a copy of the Penguin translation of the Koran (specifically, the translation by N.J. Dawood). Now obviously, since I'm not an Arabic scholar, I cannot determine at face value whether or not the translation is a good one (though the blurb on the back jacket indicates it is supposed to have a good provenance) but one thing I CAN determine upon reading it is this - it is a seriously scary book. It is inordinately fond of repeating ad nauseam phrases such as "yours will be a terrible doom", and seems to take a positively sadistic delight in describing graphic tortures awaiting those who fail to conform. Not the kind of thing I'd like a child of mine to alight upon by accident, I can tell you.

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