Clivedurdle

Where is God (Mark Smith) coming from? Is he a theist?

He seems to be conscious of the issues but goes out of his way to avoid the implications - that maybe monotheism is a graeco-persian import onto a classic tribal god model.

Remember the Greeks and the Persians had also been co-evolving for centuries - Marathon was the Greeks stopping the Persians as they saw it punishing some rebels on the borders of their Empire - but still part of the Persian Empire. It has been argued that Carthage was actually part of the Persian empire for example.

I wonder if there is a habit of splitting stuff that should not actually be split, and this may be a result of the concept of heresy.

Gestalt - foreground and background - both are required, the detail and the context.

Loomis

No. I don’t think so. But to be honest I can’t find anywhere where he has flat out declared he was an atheist.

Here’s his cv.

Smith puts Yahweh on a level playing field with El, Baal, Asherah, Anat, Mot, and Yamm. He says - for example - that early Israelites were polytheists, and that some Yahwists practiced child sacrifice. So I would be very, very, very, surprised if he thought these gods were real.

Gotta link?

I can’t find anywhere where he has specifically denied that influence.

If I were more intersted in this subject (and had more time) I would shell out $12.00 USD and buy this paper, because I bet there is a lot of good info in there.

If you are genuinely interested in this subject you should do the same. I think you are on to something and I bet it will reinforce all of the arguments you mention in this thread.

I don’t think Mark S. Smith or D. V. Edelman visit this site or monitor these threads.

Go learn something. And then come back here and teach me.

Because I’m lazy.

John Kesler

I think that Smith is Catholic, and at this site, one of his affiliations is listed as "Catholic Biblical Quarterly Monograph Series Editorial Board."

Clivedurdle

There was something about his reviews and style of writing - looked quite good when looking at Biblical texts, but anything clearly heretical, like monotheism being an import, as in that review...

Clivedurdle

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n193531g802p0hu7/

Are there any summaries of this thinking available for the hoi poloi?

Loomis

I’ve never seen Smith defend the argument that Yahweh is a real god. Have you?

Compare him to Michael Heiser (a Christian scholar who frequently cites the Ugaritric texts).

Smith argues that the Original God of the Exodus was El and not Yahweh. He says El was a polytheistic bull god who got drunk at parties. Does that sound Catholic to you?

John Kesler

I wonder how many scholars like Smith and John Day can speak so frankly about Yahweh yet remain believers, but that does not change the fact that Smith is Catholic:

Loomis

Holy shit. You’re right! Mark S. Smith is writing as a professed Catholic.

My neighbor is a Jewish rabbi - and a professed atheist. I wonder if he knows her.

I feel dizzy. Mark S. Smith is no longer my God.

I have to go sit down now.

Clivedurdle

How many assumptions about the evolution of these religious groupings have not been properly explored because of religious biases? With this one I was very surprised at the near knee jerk reaction - zoroastrianism isn't monotheist because it is dualist, when the concept of dualism is a catholic invention to surpress heresy - that led to the Albigensian Crusade and the Inquisition.

Slight chance that propaganda may be involved?

Loomis

Who wrote Psalm 82?

Where and when?

What was that guy thinking?

Isn’t that an expression of monotheism?

Or at least an early indictor of a future trend?