Freethought & Rationalism Archive

funinspace · 01-09-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proudliberal

Jesus was crucified by the religious law of blasphemy and was found guilty by the sanhedrin and was killed by the people under the torah and religious law(I believe that even in rome there was separation of church and state).

Most likeley he was found innocent under roman law by pilate and pilate washed his hands of him and the issue, and allowed the people to carry out the death sentence under religious law.

Under the code of the torah and talmud jesus was justly crucified.

Your presuming a hell of a lot of reality from the Gospels. If so, maybe you should be worshiping him </sarcasm>

More seriously, Pilate was a butcher, he would have no qualms about killing him if he thought him any threat; under the Torah he probably would have been stoned. In all likelyhood he was a ranting heretical Jewish sage, and who knows what he said for sure. Maybe he said enough for the Romans to have him executed, or maybe he was just stoned by the religious leaders.

hayahtowb · 01-09-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proudliberal

Jesus was crucified by the religious law of blasphemy and was found guilty by the sanhedrin and was killed by the people under the torah and religious law(I believe that even in rome there was separation of church and state).

Most likeley he was found innocent under roman law by pilate and pilate washed his hands of him and the issue, and allowed the people to carry out the death sentence under religious law.

Under the code of the torah and talmud jesus was justly crucified.

Is this why you would like to go back in time and be part of a murdering mob (I don't think you would do such a thing!)?

Pendaric · 01-10-2006, 08:48 AM

<This part of the thread has been split to BC&H. The threads discussing the movie and ratings system have been split to M&PC, here.

RUmike · 01-10-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBT

The Romans had some harsh punishments, but also quite a fair justice system, a man was not condemned without a trial, and he was not handed to the executioner until found guilty.

Pilate had the authority to execute at will without a trial. According to E.P. Sanders in The Historical Figure of Jesus, pg. 24:

Quote:

[T]he prefect's right to execute was not only exclusive but also absolute; he could execute even a Roman citizen, and he did not have to formulate a charge that would stand up in a court in Rome. In these outposts of empire, the prefect had to be able to do whatever he thought was necessary for the good of Rome, and this included the power to discipline the army. If he had the right to execute a Roman military officer without a full Roman trial, he could treat members of the subject nation more or less any way he wished.

Not that this happened on a regular basis necessarily, or that Pilate went around killing anybody he felt like just for the sake of it, but he certainly had the power. And given the circumstances of Passover, there would be no reason for Pilate to bat an eye at executing one deemed a troublemaker.

Quote:

It doesn't seem likely that Pilate, a Roman Governer, would declare that he found Jesus innocent and then deliver him to the executioners to be crucified.

I agree with you. This is one reason why the "trial" before Pilate is probably an invention of the early Christian community (i.e. Mark or his sources).

RUmike · 01-10-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proudliberal

Normally I dont,but for this case I make an exception. I really think and believe that the death penalty was the correct penalty and I really would have loved to participate in it.I would give anything for someone build me a time machine that worked so that I could go back in time and participate in it.

Proudliberal, I really hope this is sarcasm. If not, you are an incredibly sick individual, and certainly not the type of "infidel" that people on this board would like to associate themselves with.

steamer · 01-10-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayahtowb

Is this why you would like to go back in time and be part of a murdering mob (I don't think you would do such a thing!)?

Well, currently this god is supposedly roasting my first wife over an open fire with Jack Frost nowhere to be seen. If this god existed and I could cause this god some torment, I certainly would. However, I'd be careful not to let him escape torment by dying so soon. This evil god needs to be tormented as long as possible (fire would be an ironically good choice) and even the passion of Christ's depection of this most evil of beings minor torment is far far from what this horrendous being deserves.

Now I don't really believe this evil torture-god exists, but there are people that love him. It makes me sick to think that anyone can love this lowly evil creature or even the idea of him. It is the maggot-infested religions like Christianity that keep people loving evil.

steamer · 01-10-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUmike

Proudliberal, I really hope this is sarcasm. If not, you are an incredibly sick individual, and certainly not the type of "infidel" that people on this board would like to associate themselves with.

Really? Why? Sure revenge isn't always the best answer, but if this god exists he has far far more torment in mind for those of us that think he is pretend. If this god existed, I would not love it. If I had a chance to torment it. I would.

RUmike · 01-10-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamer

Really? Why? Sure revenge isn't always the best answer, but if this god exists he has far far more torment in mind for those of us that think he is pretend. If this god existed, I would not love it. If I had a chance to torment it. I would.

I assumed that we are talking about Jesus the man, not Jesus Christ, the theological creation.

Regardless, I would not torture "God" in human form given the opportunity. How would that make us any better than his alleged actions?

Toto · 01-10-2006, 10:42 AM

I don't know how that first post got to this forum.

Please stick to issues of Biblical Criticism and History.

Thank you.

Toto, mod BCH

Murmur · 01-10-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proudliberal

Under the code of the torah and talmud jesus was justly crucified.

Uh, Jews didn't crucify, Romans did. Jews stoned folks for blasphemy among other violations of the Torah. Whatever really happened, if this Jesus dude really existed & he was crucified, that has nothing to do with the Torah-- he would've been stoned for blasphemy by the Jewish authorities, not crucified.

murmurmurmur

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01-10-2006, 08:48 AM	#13
Pendaric Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle. Posts: 3,715	<This part of the thread has been split to BC&H. The threads discussing the movie and ratings system have been split to M&PC, here.

01-10-2006, 10:42 AM	#19
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I don't know how that first post got to this forum. Please stick to issues of Biblical Criticism and History. Thank you. Toto, mod BCH

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