Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 03-30-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

Klijn & Reining is rather short on photos, etc., but the unabridged Jewish Symbols in the Greco-Roman Period (or via: amazon.co.uk) (13 vols, Bollingen, New York) by Erwin R. Goodenough has a huge collection of photo-reproductions that will interest you.

Thanks.

Is there anything on the internet which
convinces you that it serves as evidence
for the existence of "christianity" prior to
the rise of Constantine c.312 CE?

If there is such a small citation somewhere,
that you think is appropriate for the purpose
of evidencing christianity in the prenicene,
what is it?

mountainman · 03-30-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-D

Easy. I don't know. Do you?

There are a number of books that I would like to read:

1) Books 1-13 of Ammianus Marcellinus
2) Books 1-3 of Julian's "Against the Galilaeans"
3) Books originally published by Apollonius of Tyana.

Steve Weiss · 03-30-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johann_Kaspar

You absolutely don't understand the gospel. You only are taking the opposite view of the xians, meaning you are not free of the xian mentality, seeing things only in the reverse position. Genealogies are wrong? That is not the point. Genesis is wrong, that is not the point. Who said that the Torah should begin only in the middle of Exodus? Sure, you will never get it.

Since the bible is a collection of fictional, irrational accounts by primitive people, there is nothing of substance "to get."

Steve Weiss · 03-30-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

It is not necessary for me to demonstrate that each and every aspect of Superman is fictitious, I have not read every single article about Superman, I have not read every single comic book, yet I can assert that Superman is fictitious since his origin and birth is fictitious.

The authors of Superman claimed he originated from an unknown planet, Krypton, and was sent to earth on some type of vehicle to earth, where he was found and raised by unknown, supposedly real people. That is the fundamental core of Superman and it is fiction and I do not have to find out if everyone named Clark Kent living in the USA or anywhere in the world, qualifies to be Superman. I do not have to prove that his method of movement through the air is fictitious.

Now, I will tell you that the fundamental core of Jesus the Christ is the virgin birth and it is fiction. Jesus the Christ was sent from an unknown location called heaven, by his unknown father, through the means of an unknown medium, which resulted in his birth and was raised by unknown parents. I do not have to prove that his method of healing his fictitious or that anyone with the name Jesus qualifies to be the Christ.

It is so easy to see that Superman is fiction yet so difficult, by some, to see the very same fictitious core of Jesus the Christ.

I have often said, as you do, that the bible is on the same level as a comic book as far as its credibility and relation to the facts of reality goes. Furthermore, few, if any, would question that the Superman comics are fictional accounts valued for their entertainment value and the stories of a hero who battles evil in the name of the good. In the case of Superman comics, at least, we can call the publisher and question the authors about the Superman stories, but we cannot do so with the fictional stories referred to as the bible. In addition, the comic book stories are not being passed off as holy writ and infallible truth, while that claim is made for the bible by its apologists who wish that its non-believers go to hell and suffer eternal punishment. See Luke 19:27 for support of their position. Also, the standard of morality espoused in the bible is the perversion of the good rather than support for it.

At least Superman comics is correctly identified as fiction and good fun, and it is honest in its project. The opposite can be said for the bible which is a pack of lies and deceit historically supported by the state through intimidation, torture, and murder. As to what it is that Christians find positive and real in such a work, I am at a complete loss to fathom.

mens_sana · 03-30-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Weiss

Since the bible is a collection of fictional, irrational accounts by primitive people, there is nothing of substance "to get."

"The religious traditions have been around for close to 3000 years and have engaged most of the deep thinkers and artists who walked the earth during those millennia of human history. Therefore, they're bound to be chock-full of "good stuff" even if lots of it is based on a superceded world."
– Ursula Goodenough

mens_sana · 03-30-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Thanks.

Is there anything on the internet which
convinces you that it serves as evidence
for the existence of "christianity" prior to
the rise of Constantine c.312 CE?

If there is such a small citation somewhere,
that you think is appropriate for the purpose
of evidencing christianity in the prenicene,
what is it?

I don't know how you would search those symbols out on the internet. There are probably a plethora, but likely all of them short on contextual info. However, this link may help. Just insert your own zip code.

http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/ocl...loc=87120#tabs

aa5874 · 03-30-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

"The religious traditions have been around for close to 3000 years and have engaged most of the deep thinkers and artists who walked the earth during those millennia of human history. Therefore, they're bound to be chock-full of "good stuff" even if lots of it is based on a superceded world."
– Ursula Goodenough

What is 'good stuff', fairytales?

Steve Weiss · 03-30-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

"The religious traditions have been around for close to 3000 years and have engaged most of the deep thinkers and artists who walked the earth during those millennia of human history. Therefore, they're bound to be chock-full of "good stuff" even if lots of it is based on a superceded world."
– Ursula Goodenough

Amazingly vague. Just not "Goodenough." The majority is almost always wrong, and the number of people who hold an opinion is no measure of its validity.

Perahelion · 03-30-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Weiss

Since the bible is a collection of fictional, irrational accounts by primitive people, there is nothing of substance "to get."

Hooray.

mens_sana · 03-30-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

What is 'good stuff', fairytales?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Weiss

Amazingly vague. Just not "Goodenough." The majority is almost always wrong, and the number of people who hold an opinion is no measure of its validity.

Chuckle - now why did I think there might be objections to that quote before anyone googled Prof. Goodenough?

http://www.meta-library.net/bio/goode-body.html

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