Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-17-2007, 02:23 PM

I finally located this article by Mark Smith, who devoted a considerable amount of time to the issue in debates with Christians such as your co-worker: Matthew 24:34 & Genea: What The Scholars Say.

e.g.

Quote:

(quoting Hard Sayings of the Bible [F.F. Bruce et al]),

This has been regarded as a hard saying.... Plainly the idea that the human race is meant cannot be entertained; every description of (the end of the world) implies that human beings will be around to witness it.... Nor is there much more to be said for the idea the Jewish race is meant; there is no hint anywhere in the New Testament that the Jewish race will cease to exist before the end of the world. In any case, what point would there be in such a vague prediction? It would be as much as to say, "At some time in the indefinite future all these things will take place." Jesus' hearers could have understood him to mean only that "all these things" would take place within their generation.... The phrase always means the generation now living.

RAFH · 03-17-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I finally located this article by Mark Smith, who devoted a considerable amount of time to the issue in debates with Christians such as your co-worker: Matthew 24:34 & Genea: What The Scholars Say.

e.g.

Precisely, what's the point of a prophesy that has not limitations?

I predict something will happen! Sheesh, as long as I stick with that prophesy I will have a 100% accuracy record.

Saying something will happen at a certain time and then not specifying the time is pointless.

I predict the sun will explode, someday. Not very useful or effective.

Same with junior, why tell the 12Ds the end is going to happen sometime? What are they supposed to do with that? Hey, everybody, drop everything, the end is coming sometime!

Like when?

Don't know exactly but its coming.

Tomorrow?

Uh, not necessarily, but we will know it when it happens.

Next week?

Not sure.

Next year?

Maybe.

Well, do we do the harvest and repair the roof or what?

Just get ready.

What if it doesn't come for 10 years, what are we going to do for food in the meantime?

Uh, the lord will provide.

He's gone, remember? Can you turn water into wine and make some fish and bread feed thousands?

Oh yeah, well I could try.

Can you or can't you?

... ... ...

Gawen · 03-17-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

How does a single Christian get the authority to determine the correct translation, and which version of the Bible has 'race' instead of 'generation'?

NIV

Gawen · 03-17-2007, 04:22 PM

Greatness guys...thanks loads. Chris or whoever knows Greek, can you give me the Greek and all...in the Greek?

Chris Weimer · 03-17-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawen

Greatness guys...thanks loads. Chris or whoever knows Greek, can you give me the Greek and all...in the Greek?

αμην λεγω υμιν οτι ου μη παρελθη η γενεα αυτη εως [αν] παντα ταυτα γενηται.

Gawen · 03-17-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

αμην λεγω υμιν οτι ου μη παρελθη η γενεα αυτη εως [αν] παντα ταυτα γενηται.

Thanks

Gawen · 03-17-2007, 05:51 PM

Matthew 24:15: "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

What is meant by "—let the reader understand—". Is it a redaction? It doesn't quite make sense in the narrative.

judge · 03-17-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawen

Matthew 24:15: "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

What is meant by "—let the reader understand—". Is it a redaction? It doesn't quite make sense in the narrative.

Whoever wrote Matthew's gospel probably never imagined in his wildest dreams that we would be reading it 2000 years or so later.

The implication seems that someone long agao must have had some insight into this and that it was probably associated with the destruction of Jerusalem 66-70 AD.

Steven Avery · 03-17-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

The implication seems that someone long ago must have had some insight into this and that it was probably associated with the destruction of Jerusalem 66-70 AD.

Hi Judge,

Not just long ago.

This is essentially the full preterist (hyper-preterist by some detractors) and partial preterist views today.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

judge · 03-18-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxeus

Hi Judge,

Not just long ago.

This is essentially the full preterist (hyper-preterist by some detractors) and partial preterist views today.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Yes, I find the arguments of full preterism persuasive myself. But I suppose I was indicating that today there seems no consensus AFAIK among preterists as to what the desolation was, so was leaving open the possibility that in or around 70 AD there was more consensus (if that makes sense).

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-17-2007, 04:22 PM	#14
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	Greatness guys...thanks loads. Chris or whoever knows Greek, can you give me the Greek and all...in the Greek?

03-17-2007, 05:51 PM	#17
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	Matthew 24:15: "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. What is meant by "—let the reader understand—". Is it a redaction? It doesn't quite make sense in the narrative.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.