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Old 03-11-2004, 10:50 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Atticus_Finch
I am no expert in grammar, but I applaud you for the lengh of your apparently grammatically (my spell checker currently causes my computer to crash and I am too lazy right now to find a dictionary so I appologize if this is spelled incorrectly) correct sentence and put out an open challenge for anyone to top it.

Regards,

Finch
Why, thanks.

Reviewing the sentence, however, I would change "and does it from..." to "and does so from...".
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Old 03-12-2004, 06:32 AM   #32
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Originally posted by Gregg
Yes, 1 Cor. 15 does sound like Paul's talking about an HJ, until you look at it from a different perspective. First, the mystery cults of the time believed quite similar things about their gods. Second, Paul is saying he got the information about Jesus directly from Scripture and revelation. He's not saying that Jesus' historical death and resurrection fulfilled scripture prophecies about these things--he's saying that the scriptures themselves reveal the mystery of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection in a spiritual dimension--much like other dying/rising savior gods of the time.

The appearances are, of course, easily dealt with, since everyone acknowledges that the appearance to Paul was a vision, and Paul says the other "appearances" were just like his. He shows no awareness of a physically resurrected Jesus walking around eating and drinking and touching people, just as he shows no awareness of a physical pre-Resurrection Jesus.

For Paul, Jesus only took on the "likeness," not the actuality, of flesh. In this guise he descended to the lowest level of heaven, where he was put to death by the Archons, the demon rulers of that dimension, who did not recognize him for who he was.It did indeed.

Gregg
Whew, Gregg, now we're getting somewhere. A point not yet made here is, Paul did write a gospel. He is the first writer we know of to write the gospel (euangellion) of the Christ. He uses this word over and over again.

M, M, L and J (whoever they were, as there were several teams of redactors as well, over decades) wrote gospel narratives, stories made up as if hisorical, to exhort and convert the masses to their faith, after the Jewish Temple was destroyed and the Jews scattered.

Jesus the Nazorean became Jesus of Nazareth, a man who came from a town which probably did not exist then (as there is no evidence for it), who preached at non-existant Galileean synogogues, who was or was not baptized, whose mission lasted for 1 or 3 years, whose geneology varies, whose disciples names are in question, who died at or before Pesach. Etc.
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Old 03-16-2004, 09:42 AM   #33
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http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/gosp1.htm
Something interesting to read pertaining to the topic at hand
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:02 AM   #34
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Originally posted by Mageth
If you're interested in reading an analysis of the Gospels and Paul's writings that addresses an historical Jesus to which various mythological elements were added (e.g. the virgin birth, miracles, and a physical resurrection), explaining the methods used and reasons that this was done (illustrating why the gospels should not be taken as literal, linear accounts), proposes a plausible scenario for what may have happened, and where it probably happened, after the crucifixion to give birth to the Christian sect, how the "metaphorical" legend of Jesus came to be literalized after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE, and does it from a Christian theological standpoint, see John Shelby Spong's Resurrection: Myth or Reality?
I just finished the book and thought it was terrific. I'm trying to get my (Christian) wife to read it just to show her that rejecting a physical resurrection doesn't necessarily signal the death knell of her religion. I'm a strong agnostic myself, but I found Spong's conclusions exhilarating and even a little inspiring, especially his message that you can transcend the intellectual dead end of fundamentalism and still hold on to your beliefs.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:11 AM   #35
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Originally posted by Zucco
I just finished the book and thought it was terrific. I'm trying to get my (Christian) wife to read it just to show her that rejecting a physical resurrection doesn't necessarily signal the death knell of her religion. I'm a strong agnostic myself, but I found Spong's conclusions exhilarating and even a little inspiring, especially his message that you can transcend the intellectual dead end of fundamentalism and still hold on to your beliefs.
Absolutely. I'm an atheist, and that's the message I try to "preach" to my fundamentalist friends and family.

Fundamentalism in any belief system is the real danger to humanity, IMO.
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