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Old 03-05-2006, 05:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Edward Gorey
What do you mean by "Direct"? Do you mean any person who met Jesus, or any person who was a follower of Jesus within a certain time frame.
Either. There is no evidence that any person who ever met Jesus believed in a Resurrection or claimed to have borne witness to one.
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I don't think anyone can speak with such certainty over the authenticity of the documents we have.
I don't know what you mean by "authenticity" but we can say with 100% certainty that none of the Canonical Gospels were written by apostles. The authorship traditions attributed to them are from the 2nd Century and all four traditions are now regarded as spurious by the vast majority of NT scholars (the dissenters being the most conservative religionists who base their conclusions on faith rather than methodology).
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Once again I don't think the matter can be dismissed so easily. There are still to many gray areas. I just think that you are being to cavalier in your dismissal of alternate points of view.
I don't think you're aware of where mainstream scholarship actually is on these questions, but let's make it simple. What testimony do you believe we have from any eyewitness of Jesus and what is your evidence?
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:07 PM   #22
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I have no idea what this even means... That is exactly what I was saying. What did you think I meant? (worded differently than you did above)
I think we might agree ? If you don't mind my answering a question with a question ?
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:42 PM   #23
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I don't know what you mean by "authenticity" but we can say with 100% certainty that none of the Canonical Gospels were written by apostles. The authorship traditions attributed to them are from the 2nd Century and all four traditions are now regarded as spurious by the vast majority of NT scholars (the dissenters being the most conservative religionists who base their conclusions on faith rather than methodology).
Now I know I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but why don't people hear about these things at college. I'm not currently in any history classes but I asked my brother who recently took the class "History of Christianity". He says that these facts were never mentioned in any of his classes. To my knowledge the University of Washington (where we both attend) does not have any religious affiliations. Do the professors just want to avoid controversy?
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Edward Gorey
Now I know I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but why don't people hear about these things at college.
That's really a very good question. Why don't people hear about these things ever in their lives?
When your a child there's at least a big kid that comes along and tells you that Santa Claus is really your parents and that it's all made up. Not so when comes to the bible. Axioms are assumed to be truth and that is not questioned. The things that can't be known becomes a matter of faith and that's as far as the discussion goes.
There are those with advanced degrees in Biblical History from colleges all over the county that never venture in the area of Biblical Criticism.
No one, especially believers, will encourage them to ever do so.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Edward Gorey
Now I know I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but why don't people hear about these things at college. I'm not currently in any history classes but I asked my brother who recently took the class "History of Christianity". He says that these facts were never mentioned in any of his classes. To my knowledge the University of Washington (where we both attend) does not have any religious affiliations. Do the professors just want to avoid controversy?
I learned about it in college (I was a Religion major). If you take any in-depth classes on Biblical Criticism you will learn at least a little about it. You might not learn much about it in a Christian History class because the textual origins are such a can of worms unto themselves that it would distract from the rest of the course. If you take a class on the New Testament you'll learn a little more. You should at least learn about the synoptic problem, but even those tend to concentrate on Lit Crit.

To get serious info on Textual or Historical Criticism you pretty much have to seek out classes tailored to majors or find it in grad school.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:28 PM   #26
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There are those with advanced degrees in Biblical History from colleges all over the country that never venture in the area of Biblical Criticism.
No one, especially believers, will encourage them to ever do so.
I just don't understand why they don't venture into the area of biblical history. I just can't believe that there is such a powerful Christian presence in this country that professors at universities are afraid to touch on these subjects. Private religious schools maybe, but I'm talking about state run schools with no religious affiliations. They don't seem to have problems teaching evolution in college.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Edward Gorey
I just don't understand why they don't venture into the area of biblical history. I just can't believe that there is such a powerful Christian presence in this country that professors at universities are afraid to touch on these subjects. Private religious schools maybe, but I'm talking about state run schools with no religious affiliations. They don't seem to have problems teaching evolution in college.
I don't know if they are afraid of the topic per se. It may be a general lack of interest or they may hold religious convictions or have vested interests that don't encourage investigating these topics with an truly open mind. I have found that most of the people that spend their lives studying the bible never spend time on learning how it was actually complied.

As far as evolution goes, this study doesn't deal with questions as to why life began. Evolution focuses upon how it was possible for diversity to evolve over time. Also, there isn't a conflict of interest with the theistic evolution perspective, which is what all but the most fundamentalist Christians readily accept.
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