Freethought & Rationalism Archive

vid · 01-31-2009, 03:37 AM

Thank you. I was almost sure it isn't 1st century (especially since it came with no references, as usual), and I hoped someone would identify it - just as it happened. Now I can fix it and back it up with reference.

vid · 01-31-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

ETA this is a possibility for the earliest image of Jesus, dated to the 4th century.

So, I quess you don't count the donkey-head one? :devil1:

Sheshbazzar · 01-31-2009, 08:06 AM

She'quar Ha'SUS l'tshuah ?
Yep! :Cheeky:

Clivedurdle · 02-02-2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

So, I quess you don't count the donkey-head one? :devil1:

From frontispiece to Freke and Gandy Laughing Goddess

Quote:

Graffiti carved on a pillar in Rome between 193 and 235 CE. Traditionally interpreted by Christian scholars as a Pagan insult towards Christianity, the image actually derives from the Pagan Mystery religions. The donkey represents Set, the enemy of Osiris in Egyptian mythology. Set symbolises the base aspects of human nature, which is the enemy of the higher nature represented by Osiris.

The graffiti also depicts another Pagan symbol, the letter Y was often used on the graves of Pythagoreans. This symbolises the two paths open to man in life and death. In life, the left hand or "sinister" path leads to evil and the right hand or "righteous" path to goodness. After death the left hand path leads to Tartarus, the Greek purgatory, folowed by reincarnation. Whereas the righthand path leads to immortality in the Elysian fields.

figuer · 02-02-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Once again, Jesus appears far more Aryan than Jewish.

The Aryans are the people of Iran (=Aryanland) and North India. You mean perhaps he appears more European than Levantine? Hardly surprising if the artists were Romans.

vid · 02-02-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Graffiti carved on a pillar in Rome between 193 and 235 CE. Traditionally interpreted by Christian scholars as a Pagan insult towards Christianity, the image actually derives from the Pagan Mystery religions. The donkey represents Set, the enemy of Osiris in Egyptian mythology. Set symbolises the base aspects of human nature, which is the enemy of the higher nature represented by Osiris.

The graffiti also depicts another Pagan symbol, the letter Y was often used on the graves of Pythagoreans. This symbolises the two paths open to man in life and death. In life, the left hand or "sinister" path leads to evil and the right hand or "righteous" path to goodness. After death the left hand path leads to Tartarus, the Greek purgatory, folowed by reincarnation. Whereas the righthand path leads to immortality in the Elysian fields.

Did these mystery religion include crossing a god? I already have read that this graffiti is supposed to mean pagan donkey-head deity, but pre-christian crossed god sounds very Zeitgeisty to me.

Clivedurdle · 02-02-2009, 04:22 AM

http://www.souldish.com/wp-content/u...scrossthm2.jpg

Anyone know about this? Orpheus on a cross?

arnoldo · 02-02-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

So, I quess you don't count the donkey-head one? :devil1:

From frontispiece to Freke and Gandy Laughing Goddess

Quote:

Graffiti carved on a pillar in Rome between 193 and 235 CE. Traditionally interpreted by Christian scholars as a Pagan insult towards Christianity, the image actually derives from the Pagan Mystery religions. The donkey represents Set, the enemy of Osiris in Egyptian mythology. Set symbolises the base aspects of human nature, which is the enemy of the higher nature represented by Osiris.

The graffiti also depicts another Pagan symbol, the letter Y was often used on the graves of Pythagoreans. This symbolises the two paths open to man in life and death. In life, the left hand or "sinister" path leads to evil and the right hand or "righteous" path to goodness. After death the left hand path leads to Tartarus, the Greek purgatory, folowed by reincarnation. Whereas the righthand path leads to immortality in the Elysian fields.

Sounds like an interesting book at least from the product description. . .

Quote:

Product Description
What if the Old Testament is a work of fiction, Jesus never existed and Muhammad was a mobster? What if the Bible and "Qur'an" are works of political propaganda created by Taliban-like fundamentalists to justify the sort of religious violence we are witnessing in the world today? What if there is a big idea which could free us from the us-versus-them world created by religion and make it possible for us to truly love our neighbours, and indeed our enemies, as our self? What if it is possible to awaken to a profound state of oneness and love, which the Gnostic Christians symbolised by the enigmatic figure of the laughing Jesus? Religiously inspired acts of violence, such as the attacks of 9/11, are nothing new. They are the continuation of a long and bloody history of divinely sanctioned brutality, caused by mistaking bizarre old books for the Word of God. The time has come to end religious intolerance and to wake up to oneness, by rediscovering the Gnostic way of transforming oneself and the world. Here, discover for yourself why the Gnostic Jesus laughs.
The Laughing Jesus by: Freke and Gandy (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Tertullian on the other hand states the following:

Quote:

Tertullian confirms in To the Nations 11.1-2 that Christians were accused of worshipping the head of an ass (translation slightly modified from that at the Christian Classics Ethereal Library):

Nec tantum in hoc nomine rei desertae communis religionis, sed superductae monstruosae superstitionis. nam, ut quidam, somniasti{s} caput asininum esse deum nostrum; hanc Cornelius Tacitus suspicionem fecit. is enim in quarta historiarum suarum, ubi de bello Iudaico digerit, ab origine gentis exorsus, et tam de ipsa origine quam de nomine religionis, ut voluit, argumentatus, Iudaeos refert in expeditione vastis in locis {a}quae inopia laborantes onagris, qui de pastu aquam petituri aestimabantur, indicibus fontis usos evasisse; ita ob eam gratiam consimilis bestiae superficiem a Iudaeis coli.

In this matter we are [said to be] guilty not merely of forsaking the religion of the community, but of introducing a monstrous superstition; for some among you have dreamed that our god is the head of an ass, an absurdity which Cornelius Tacitus first suggested. In the fourth book* of his histories, where he is treating of the Jewish war, he begins his description with the origin of that nation, and gives his own views respecting both the origin and the name of their religion. He relates that the Jews, in their migration in the desert, when suffering for want of water, escaped by following for guides some wild asses, which they supposed to be going in quest of water after pasture, and that on this account the image of one of these animals was worshipped by the Jews.
http://www.textexcavation.com/alexamenos.html

andrewcriddle · 02-02-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

http://www.souldish.com/wp-content/u...scrossthm2.jpg

Anyone know about this? Orpheus on a cross?

Probably an 18th/19th century forgery
See orpheus and various threads on this forum.

Andrew Criddle

Joan of Bark · 02-02-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Once again, Jesus appears far more Aryan than Jewish.

The Aryans are the people of Iran (=Aryanland) and North India. You mean perhaps he appears more European than Levantine? Hardly surprising if the artists were Romans.

According to the online dictionary ...

Quote:

Aryan

–noun 1. Ethnology. a member or descendant of the prehistoric people who spoke Indo-European.
2. (in Nazi doctrine) a non-Jewish Caucasian, esp. of Nordic stock.
3. (formerly) Indo-European.
4. (formerly) Indo-Iranian.
–adjective 5. of or pertaining to an Aryan or the Aryans.
6. (formerly) Indo-European.
7. (formerly) Indo-Iranian.

White supremecists often call themselves Aryans, as in 'white Europeans'.

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01-31-2009, 03:37 AM	#11
vid Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Myjava, Slovakia Posts: 384	Thank you. I was almost sure it isn't 1st century (especially since it came with no references, as usual), and I hoped someone would identify it - just as it happened. Now I can fix it and back it up with reference.

01-31-2009, 08:06 AM	#13
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	She'quar Ha'SUS l'tshuah ? Yep! :Cheeky:

02-02-2009, 04:22 AM	#17
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	http://www.souldish.com/wp-content/u...scrossthm2.jpg Anyone know about this? Orpheus on a cross?

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