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Old 11-24-2004, 06:22 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by rostau
I'm not sure I fully understand this, Chili. If it is a human language, then it must be known to someone. Otherwise it can't conceivably be a human language. Unless you're being sarcastic and I'm dense?
It is the Follower of Christ's idea that tongues are "a human language that is unknown to the speaker" to which I added that is not known to anyone else either. This makes it 'non-human' and not rational.
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The HS? What's next? The JC? The God Guy? Jeez and the Hip 12? :-)

Seriously, though, is it the opinion of modern Christians that what happened at Pentecost was a unique event and *not* 'speaking in tongues'? Because in Paul, speaking in tongues appears to be glossolalia the way we know it today, ie random, meaningless babbling. Of course, the practitioners don't believe it is meaningless, but it certainly appears meaningless to non-believers, whereas what happened at Pentecost had the precise opposite characteristic...
I am not sure but they may think that it was an actual foreing language. One thing is for sure: if it was human it was conventional and if it was not human it was not conventional. If it was not conventional it was meaningless babbling and if it was a foreign language it was still meaningless babbling because it was foreign.

It is attributed to the HS in that it was a spontaneous uttering as a direct result of Pentecost. We call it babbling - they call it evidence and still call it evidence today.
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Old 11-24-2004, 03:14 PM   #12
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American English speakers don't produce clicks in their glossolalia.
But it seems it is so culturally specific, different styles are evolving in different communities! Strange the third person of the trinity does not use languages and sounds outside of someone's experience! I would be very worried if we did get clicks from an American!
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Old 11-25-2004, 07:40 AM   #13
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1 Samuel 19 :: The Message (MSG)

22Fed up, Saul went to Ramah himself. He came to the big cistern at Secu and inquired, "Where are Samuel and David?"
A bystander said, "Over at Naioth in Ramah."
23As he headed out for Naioth in Ramah, the Spirit of God was on him, too. All the way to Naioth he was caught up in a babbling trance! 24He ripped off his clothes and lay there rambling gibberish before Samuel for a day and a night, stretched out naked. People are still talking about it: "Saul among the prophets! Who would have guessed?"


1 Samuel 19 :: New International Version (NIV)

22 Finally, he himself left for Ramah and went to the great cistern at Secu. And he asked, "Where are Samuel and David?"
"Over in Naioth at Ramah," they said.
23 So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth. 24 He stripped off his robes and also prophesied in Samuel's presence. He lay that way all that day and night. This is why people say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"


Here are 2 translations of Sam.19-22. Is this the 1st biblical reference to speaking in tongues ? Perhaps the tower of babble myth could count as the 1st?
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