Freethought & Rationalism Archive

judanne · 08-04-2005, 07:09 PM

Does anyone out there know whether there is any historical or archeological evidence of ergotism around the time the bible was written? There are lots of references to it from the middle ages in Europe and of it's presence in the Near East, but nothing dating the latter location that I have been able to find online.

Cynthia of Syracuse · 08-06-2005, 10:51 AM

This might get a better response in BC&H. Hold on to your hat.

Amaleq13 · 08-06-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judanne

Does anyone out there know whether there is any historical or archeological evidence of ergotism around the time the bible was written? There are lots of references to it from the middle ages in Europe and of it's presence in the Near East, but nothing dating the latter location that I have been able to find online.

There are speculative interpretations of the Bible and references to Leviticus (11:47; 13:47-50; 14:45) as mentioning mold but I don't know of anything that would qualify as "historical or archeological evidence".

espritch · 08-06-2005, 11:41 AM

You might need to specify which part of the Bible. As I understand it, the Bible is a collection of texts written over a long period of time. Of course I would assume that ergotism as been around a long while as well (at least as long as wheat and rhye have been cultivated). But I don't think we know who actually authored the various books of the Bible (some probably had mutiple authors) so I don't think there is any way you could prove that any particular author was suffering from ergotism.

Toto · 08-06-2005, 02:17 PM

This source says:

Quote:

Rye was a weed grain and occurred wherever wheat was cultivated. Often it became the dominant plant when wheat fields were abandoned. Thus, in a way, where ever civilization became established, rye would follow it there. However, it was not cultivated for food until some time, in the early Middle Ages (around the 5th. Century), in what is now eastern Europe and western Russia. It was in the Rhine Valley, in 857 A.D., that the first major outbreak of gangrenous ergotism was documented. It was at this time that the symptoms (but not the knowledge of what caused the symptoms) from consumption of ergot was called Holy Fire. "Fire" because of the burning sensations, in the extremities, that were experienced by the victims of gangrenous ergotism, and "Holy" because of the belief that this was a punishment from God.

On line "textbook" (warning - there are some outright errors in this, including making 857 AD 857 BC)

Quote:

...

The Eleusinian Mystery during the time of Plato involved people making pilgrimages to Eleusinian Temples where sacramental potions (=kykeon) were taken, which among other things contained cereal grains and water. The hallucinogenic compound in ergot is an alkaloid, and all alkaloids are more or less soluble in water; but the toxic ones in ergots are less soluble than the hallucinogenic ones (lysergic acid amide). LSD doesn’t occur in ergots but is a semi-synthetic derivative made in the lab from lysergic acid amide.

Source: Mary K. Matossian’s (1989): Poisons of the Past: Molds, epidemics, and history. Yale Univ. Press, New Haven.

There is a favorable review of Matossian's book here:

Quote:

Public Health Measures in Biblical Times

The very first mention of mold and mold cleanup is in the Bible: Leviticus, Ch. 13, verses 1-46 (isolation or purification of people with skin diseases); verses 47-59 (mildewed clothing must be burned); and Ch. 14, verses 33-48 (mildew "with greenish or reddish depressions" on the inside wall of a house). The rabbi did inspections and acted as the public health officer.

The mildewed walls were to be remedied, according to Chapter 14, by tearing out the contaminated stones and throwing them into "an unclean place outside the town," then scraping the remaining inside walls and throwing the scrapings in an unclean place. The old stones are replaced with new, the house is replastered and then monitored to see whether the trouble recurs. This is not too different from remediation of moldy buildings, as it is done today. (In previous translations, the rather vague word used for any skin disease was translated as "leprosy." This translation uses "mildew," but the word should not be taken too literally.)

So it appears that there are some descriptions of health conditions in Biblical and classical times that are consistent with ergotism, but nothing clear.

judanne · 08-07-2005, 06:42 AM

Thanks for the responses everyone. Matossian's book looks interesting and I'll have a look for it next time I'm at the bookstore or library.

No, I wouldn't expect to be able to find any proof that a particular biblical author was suffering any of the CNS effects of ergot poisoning. I was thinking more along the lines of wild comic speculation having at least a plausible basis

I do know that LSD is a synthetic compound and not found (as is) in ergot, but I did come across some material that listed some CNS symptoms of ergotism, one of which was madness.

Again, thanks. I know it was kind of an obscure question.

08-04-2005, 07:09 PM	#1
judanne Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: near Toronto Posts: 1,757	Ergotism Does anyone out there know whether there is any historical or archeological evidence of ergotism around the time the bible was written? There are lots of references to it from the middle ages in Europe and of it's presence in the Near East, but nothing dating the latter location that I have been able to find online.

08-06-2005, 10:51 AM	#2
Cynthia of Syracuse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vermont, USA Posts: 2,821	Mod note This might get a better response in BC&H. Hold on to your hat.

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08-06-2005, 11:41 AM	#4
espritch Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 2,038	You might need to specify which part of the Bible. As I understand it, the Bible is a collection of texts written over a long period of time. Of course I would assume that ergotism as been around a long while as well (at least as long as wheat and rhye have been cultivated). But I don't think we know who actually authored the various books of the Bible (some probably had mutiple authors) so I don't think there is any way you could prove that any particular author was suffering from ergotism.

08-07-2005, 06:42 AM	#6
judanne Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: near Toronto Posts: 1,757	Thanks for the responses everyone. Matossian's book looks interesting and I'll have a look for it next time I'm at the bookstore or library. No, I wouldn't expect to be able to find any proof that a particular biblical author was suffering any of the CNS effects of ergot poisoning. I was thinking more along the lines of wild comic speculation having at least a plausible basis I do know that LSD is a synthetic compound and not found (as is) in ergot, but I did come across some material that listed some CNS symptoms of ergotism, one of which was madness. Again, thanks. I know it was kind of an obscure question.

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