Freethought & Rationalism Archive

the_cave · 09-29-2008, 05:48 PM

zhugin: ok, but look at the second "i" in "supplicio" two lines down from Chrestianos/Christianos.

spin · 09-29-2008, 07:06 PM

There are three different forms of the lower case /i/. I've noted the /ri/ combination. There is also a straight-down /i/ following /t/, /g/, and /l/. Last is the type currently found in christianos. Obviously it is this third that interests us.

If we look at it in the context of a following /s/. Look at principis in the second line, the -is, the p[o]enis and the inuisos in the fifth line, the nominis in the sixth. You can see the relationship between the end of the /i/ and the blob halfway up the /s/. What's there of the blob in christianos is too high for the /i/, but where you'd expect it for the ligature from the middle of an /e/. Just another pointer to an /e/ rather than an /i/.

spin

Roger Pearse · 09-30-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhugin

Useful - thank you! But I'm not convinced that it's leaning either way.

zhugin · 09-30-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_cave

zhugin: ok, but look at the second "i" in "supplicio" two lines down from Chrestianos/Christianos.

zhugin · 09-30-2008, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

If we look at it in the context of a following /s/. Look at principis in the second line, the -is, the p[o]enis and the inuisos in the fifth line, the nominis in the sixth. You can see the relationship between the end of the /i/ and the blob halfway up the /s/. What's there of the blob in christianos is too high for the /i/, but where you'd expect it for the ligature from the middle of an /e/. Just another pointer to an /e/ rather than an /i/.

spin

Let's compare!

spin · 09-30-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhugin

Let's compare!

Read my first paragraph before doing so.

spin

Ben C Smith · 09-30-2008, 03:32 PM

Is the following a decent summary of the situation as far as we can tell from the photo?

1. The word in question unmistakeably looks like Christianos, with an i.
2. However, the space left for the i is larger than usual.
3. And the ri combination, always expressed as a ligature elsewhere on this page, is not a ligature in this case.
4. The word Christiani in the margin is either a variant reading, but in the wrong case, or a note intended to mark an interesting passage, meaning [it is here that the] Christians [are discussed in Tacitus].

Any issues with this summary?

Also, are there any copyright issues on that photo? Can it be displayed on a web page permanently?

Ben.

mountainman · 09-30-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhugin

What do you think? Was the original letter an i or an e in this manuscript?

Dear zhugin,

Here is a compendium of extracts that I have gathered in a draft form only at present that relate to the issues associated with The sources of CHRESTOS and CHRISTOS in Antiquity .

I am happy to discuss any of thesde references.

Best wishes,

Pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by AM

With a cry of joy Eusebius, possibly a man of Jewish descent, retells from Josephus the story of the siege and capture of Jerusalem: thus may perish the enemies of Christ. Perhaps it is no chance that personally neither Lactantius nor Eusebius had suffered much from Diocletian’s persecution. Like Tacitus in relation to Domitian, they voiced the resentment of the majority who had survived in fear rather than in physical pain. Eusebius had been near his master Pamphilus who had carried on his work on the Bible in prison while awaiting death (4).

Roger Pearse · 10-01-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Is the following a decent summary of the situation as far as we can tell from the photo?

1. The word in question unmistakeably looks like Christianos, with an i.
2. However, the space left for the i is larger than usual.
3. And the ri combination, always expressed as a ligature elsewhere on this page, is not a ligature in this case.
4. The word Christiani in the margin is either a variant reading, but in the wrong case, or a note intended to mark an interesting passage, meaning [it is here that the] Christians [are discussed in Tacitus].

Any issues with this summary?

Also, are there any copyright issues on that photo? Can it be displayed on a web page permanently?

Ben.

That summary is inline with my understanding. I don't know about the photo; where and when is it from?

zhugin · 10-01-2008, 06:35 AM

The picture is from Fuchs' book, but Henricus Rostagno made the "Lichtdruck" and it was published by Leiden 1902. I can hardly think there is any copyright issues regarding it.

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09-29-2008, 05:48 PM	#31
the_cave Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 1,443	zhugin: ok, but look at the second "i" in "supplicio" two lines down from Chrestianos/Christianos.

09-29-2008, 07:06 PM	#32
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	There are three different forms of the lower case /i/. I've noted the /ri/ combination. There is also a straight-down /i/ following /t/, /g/, and /l/. Last is the type currently found in christianos. Obviously it is this third that interests us. If we look at it in the context of a following /s/. Look at principis in the second line, the -is, the p[o]enis and the inuisos in the fifth line, the nominis in the sixth. You can see the relationship between the end of the /i/ and the blob halfway up the /s/. What's there of the blob in christianos is too high for the /i/, but where you'd expect it for the ligature from the middle of an /e/. Just another pointer to an /e/ rather than an /i/. spin

09-30-2008, 03:32 PM	#37
Ben C Smith Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 4,787	Is the following a decent summary of the situation as far as we can tell from the photo? 1. The word in question unmistakeably looks like Christianos, with an i. 2. However, the space left for the i is larger than usual. 3. And the ri combination, always expressed as a ligature elsewhere on this page, is not a ligature in this case. 4. The word Christiani in the margin is either a variant reading, but in the wrong case, or a note intended to mark an interesting passage, meaning [it is here that the] Christians [are discussed in Tacitus]. Any issues with this summary? Also, are there any copyright issues on that photo? Can it be displayed on a web page permanently? Ben.

10-01-2008, 06:35 AM	#40
zhugin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tellus Posts: 45	The picture is from Fuchs' book, but Henricus Rostagno made the "Lichtdruck" and it was published by Leiden 1902. I can hardly think there is any copyright issues regarding it.

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