Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Minimalist · 04-29-2009, 08:40 AM

Greece existed as a conquered nation for nearly 2000 years, too. The Mandaeans have survived for nearly that long living among the Arabs in Iraq.

Wooster · 04-29-2009, 08:49 AM

It's like saying "Look over there - shiny object! The bible is true because of shiny object!"

ApostateAbe · 04-29-2009, 09:01 AM

The only reason that ethnic groups survive is because they don't interbreed with other ethnic groups. Jews are exceptionally good at refusing to mix. There is a solid conservative core of Jews that mate only with other Jews. If Pastor Chuck Smith wants to attribute that to God, well, I'll just have to say, "Uh...... yeah."

semiopen · 04-29-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

It is the other way around, if they are the chosen people of god, why have they faired so badly?

And, if JC is the Jewish messia, then all Jews tday are in the wrong..

As Patty Smyth said:

Quote:

...you win If you survive

Reagrding JC being the messiah (God forbid), I've been hoping the honor your father and mother defense will carry a little weight.

steve_bnk · 04-29-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksen

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

It is the other way around, if they are the chosen people of god, why have they faired so badly?

And, if JC is the Jewish messia, then all Jews tday are in the wrong..

Not all the Jews are wrong. There are groups of Messianic Jews that believe Jesus is the Messiah.

Can it also be said that all Christians are Jewish converts?

motorhead · 04-29-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Can it also be said that all Christians are Jewish converts?

You could say Christians are converts to the Jewish faith, albeit, their own version of the Jewish faith. One Jewish belief about their Messiah is he would turn the world (meaning large #'s of non-Jews) to the worship of the God of Israel. Jesus has accomplished that.

show_no_mercy · 04-29-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorhead

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Can it also be said that all Christians are Jewish converts?

You could say Christians are converts to the Jewish faith, albeit, their own version of the Jewish faith. One Jewish belief about their Messiah is he would turn the world (meaning large #'s of non-Jews) to the worship of the God of Israel. Jesus has accomplished that.

Unless you equivocate between "all" and "a lot" then no, he didn't do that. The prophecy in Isaiah about the messiah says that he'll convert the entire world to follow YHWH. Not "a large number".

And even so, unless you say that Jesus is the god of the Jews (which Jews don't believe) then no, even that "large number" is not worshipping the god of the Jews.

steve_bnk · 04-29-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorhead

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Can it also be said that all Christians are Jewish converts?

You could say Christians are converts to the Jewish faith, albeit, their own version of the Jewish faith. One Jewish belief about their Messiah is he would turn the world (meaning large #'s of non-Jews) to the worship of the God of Israel. Jesus has accomplished that.

Some US Christians have begun to glom onto the Jews.

Tubby Lardmore · 04-29-2009, 05:26 PM

I did not hear Pastor Smith attribute what he said to Disraeli, but I suspect that is his source--or rather, the apocryphal story about Disraeli is his source.

Interesting to see other examples besides the Jews given above.

beero1000 · 04-29-2009, 06:08 PM

how is that anything but survivorship bias?

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04-29-2009, 08:40 AM	#11
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	Greece existed as a conquered nation for nearly 2000 years, too. The Mandaeans have survived for nearly that long living among the Arabs in Iraq.

04-29-2009, 08:49 AM	#12
Wooster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle of an orange grove Posts: 671	It's like saying "Look over there - shiny object! The bible is true because of shiny object!"

04-29-2009, 09:01 AM	#13
ApostateAbe Contributor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MT Posts: 10,656	The only reason that ethnic groups survive is because they don't interbreed with other ethnic groups. Jews are exceptionally good at refusing to mix. There is a solid conservative core of Jews that mate only with other Jews. If Pastor Chuck Smith wants to attribute that to God, well, I'll just have to say, "Uh...... yeah."

04-29-2009, 05:26 PM	#19
Tubby Lardmore Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,470	I did not hear Pastor Smith attribute what he said to Disraeli, but I suspect that is his source--or rather, the apocryphal story about Disraeli is his source. Interesting to see other examples besides the Jews given above.

04-29-2009, 06:08 PM	#20
beero1000 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 1,715	how is that anything but survivorship bias?

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