Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dog-on · 09-01-2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

The important thing is that Paul puts the preaching of the gospel in the past in 1 Cor 15:1. He's already preached it and now he is keeping the gospel in their minds, for it is their salvation... Well, it is if they hang on to it, which leads into his discourse from v.12 on.

Ok, but what is 'his gospel'?

And surely, the phrase here is ''now I would remind you (of it)"

Paul's gospel was that God, the father, sent his son as a ransom, to free us from the curse of the law, that we are now free, in Christ, through faith.

Christ dieing for the forgiveness of sin is a later recasting of the original, IMO.

Steven Carr · 09-01-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

And surely, the phrase here is ''now I would remind you (of it)"

I thought people in oral societies had amazing memories for oral traditions.

Turns out that they don't as Paul has to jog their memory.

archibald · 09-01-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Paul has to jog their memory.

But then, in that case, where is the reminder?

archibald · 09-01-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Paul's gospel was that God, the father, sent his son as a ransom, to free us from the curse of the law, that we are now free, in Christ, through faith.

Nothing about resurrection? Jesus just died, and freed us that way?

Toto · 09-01-2011, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

I might add that I was using the Robert Price translation given to me at the start of the thread.

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...apocrypha.html

No, in fact I wasn't, I switched to KJV ('declare') in case Price's 'remind' was too generous.

That is not Price's translation. It appears to be the RSV. Price wrote this article before he did his own translations in his Pre-Nicene New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Price's translation:

So I inform you, brothers, of the news with which I evangelized you, the same that you welcomed and in which tradition you stand, the one by which you are saved, providing you hold firmly to what I said when I evangelized you -- unless, perhaps, it was all some mistake?

Price's note: "This strange wording bespeaks the fictive recollection, the first time announcement of something for which a venerable Pauline pedigree is now sought."

archibald · 09-01-2011, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

I might add that I was using the Robert Price translation given to me at the start of the thread.

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...apocrypha.html

No, in fact I wasn't, I switched to KJV ('declare') in case Price's 'remind' was too generous.

That is not Price's translation. It appears to be the RSV. Price wrote this article before he did his own translations in his Pre-Nicene New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Price's translation:

So I inform you, brothers, of the news with which I evangelized you, the same that you welcomed and in which tradition you stand, the one by which you are saved, providing you hold firmly to what I said when I evangelized you -- unless, perhaps, it was all some mistake?

Price's note: "This strange wording bespeaks the fictive recollection, the first time announcement of something for which a venerable Pauline pedigree is now sought."

I'll take 'inform'. :]

How can it be a first time announcement if he had already evangelized them with it?

Gotta go here. Catch you later.

aa5874 · 09-01-2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

And surely, the phrase here is ''now I would remind you (of it)"

I thought people in oral societies had amazing memories for oral traditions.

Turns out that they don't as Paul has to jog their memory.

And if Jesus was a man then "Paul" himself suffered from Amnesia. "Paul" claimed he was NOT the apostle of a man and did NOT get his gospel from man.

But, even more alarming, "Paul" could NOT even remember how he met Jesus.

2Co 12:3 -

Quote:

And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)...

dog-on · 09-01-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Paul's gospel was that God, the father, sent his son as a ransom, to free us from the curse of the law, that we are now free, in Christ, through faith.

Nothing about resurrection? Jesus just died, and freed us that way?

? Nah, I think that the resurrection was part of the deal, freedom from death and all that.

Anyway, how would you actually kill a god and expect him to stay dead?

Toto · 09-01-2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

...

Price's note: "This strange wording bespeaks the fictive recollection, the first time announcement of something for which a venerable Pauline pedigree is now sought."

I'll take 'inform'. :]

How can it be a first time announcement if he had already evangelized them with it?

Gotta go here. Catch you later.

commentary

Quote:

I declare unto you - (Γνωρίζω Gnōrizō). This word properly means to make known, to declare, to reveal Luke 2:15; Romans 9:22-23; then to tell, narrate, inform Ephesians 6:21; Colossians 4:7, Colossians 4:9; and also to put in mind of, to impress, to confirm; see the note at 1 Corinthians 12:3. Here it does not mean that he was communicating to them any new truth, but he wished to remind them of it; to state the arguments for it, and to impress it deeply on their memories. There is an abruptness in our translation which does not exist in the original. Bloomfield.

archibald · 09-01-2011, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by archibald

I'll take 'inform'. :]

How can it be a first time announcement if he had already evangelized them with it?

Gotta go here. Catch you later.

commentary

Quote:

I declare unto you - (Γνωρίζω Gnōrizō). This word properly means to make known, to declare, to reveal Luke 2:15; Romans 9:22-23; then to tell, narrate, inform Ephesians 6:21; Colossians 4:7, Colossians 4:9; and also to put in mind of, to impress, to confirm; see the note at 1 Corinthians 12:3. Here it does not mean that he was communicating to them any new truth, but he wished to remind them of it; to state the arguments for it, and to impress it deeply on their memories. There is an abruptness in our translation which does not exist in the original. Bloomfield.

I'm not sure how that affects what I am trying to get at.

Are you saying that it could have been a 1st time announcement?

Btw: I wasn't earlier thinking that Price was using his own personal translations. I meant the translation he was using. Just to clear up what I meant there.

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