Toto

Christian women did not live in a "fluffy" environment, but pagan women often lived in an environment that was hostile to child bearing and child rearing. It's all relative.

jules?

If Stark is a right wing christian it is a bit odd [or honest!] that he should ascribe the success of xstianity to its communist roots. It fascinates me that when the end-times were revived in the middle of the 19th century there were the two distinct branches of 'drop everything and wait like sheep for the end' and those who believed that heaven on earth could be brought about by a commonwealth and set up communist models. It appears to be a repeat of the original Essene mixed idea of apocalypse [as a change of era] who seemed split between the model commune and awaiting an impending gorefest.

Toto

Stark is conservative and now a Christian, but definitely not a "right wing Christian conservative." He fits in more with the Straussians, who think that religion is a socially useful institution, whatever the truth of its doctrine. I think he has also written that religions need an irrational, unprovable doctrine.

youngalexander

Pastor and Titiana and Marciana and
Chreste, for son Marcianus well deserving
in Jesus Christ our Lord, have made this, who lived 12 years,
2 months and days, ...

Ante Pacem p219-20 Pre-Constantine Roman Christian Inscriptions. Of 127 people there were 53 who
Think about that!
A sense of impending doom and salvation was present in the psyche of the time.
does not quite describe the frightful reality!

These folks needed salvation. Christianity offered it to them & a great deal of real charitable & palliative care before the inevitable impending 'final blow'. They were not just 'participants', they were part of a caring community. Like Toto I have been impressed with Stark's analysis, which also seems to be born out in Peter Lampe's analysis of Rome - atypical city that it was.

So they died, mostly young. They got buried in say Callixtus Catacombs. They decorated their surroundings with Salvation iconography. Not surprised so far?

From whence was the iconography derived? Scripture. OT.
What a jolly good set of questions!

youngalexander

He certainly does, and with a convincing argument. Namely, that simple palliative care would have been considerably efficacious - ie. providing water, nurishment, clean linen etc. Rather than the pagan alternative of heading for the hills.

Yup.

Always one of my dearest ambitions to remain virginal. Regretably a women took it when I was a mere 16. Fortunately she is now the grandmother of my numerous grandchildren - but I digress.

Crikey, been a while since I read it, altho it is literaly 'at my elbow' I am too lazy to consult. Lampe disclosed some interesting insights that may throw light upon this point.
1. There was a distinct imbalance b/w women & men in the upper class X. This caused a good deal of angst and resulted in upper class women marryinf 'below ' them. Perhaps it also led to outsourcing?
2. Evidently, in the 1st C, when the X community was short of a bob, it was not unknown for free citizens to sell themselves into slavery in order to provide funds for the 'church'.

With attitudes like that does it really seem so surprising that they did expand rapidly. As a matter of fact, I have become so impressed with the early X community that I am inclined to think that had I been alive at that time then ...
It is just that the god bit puts me off somewhat.

jules?

No Divinity Needed?

It is kind of fitting together.

1. class struggle
2. urban poverty
3. a commonwealth [much distrusted]
4. ingrained superstition and fear of impeding doom
5. plagues that wiped out 1 in 4
6. and a neat simple message that promised salvation from the shit hole of urban existence.
7. middle class widows with money

but the vehicle of the faith still seems a little elusive

Paul seems to be constantly asking for money, and a certain satire points to missionaries as being nothing more than con artists. Why did Paul need money, did the Jerusalem church roof need fixing? was it for weapons to fund the jihad? was it for his pocket? It is funny that missionary work today still works on the miracles for cash. Was that the means of conversion? Even if it was spread by crooks it would not devalue what was being spread and all that communal wealth assisted in missionaries getting their cut

Clivedurdle

Dredging vague recollections from my first degree - sociology based, Stark does not feel that important a player in the field of sociology of religion - he does feel like a populiser dabbling outside his speciality.

The stuff on evolution is extremely iffy - worth a thread in EC?

I have posted in the past links to sociology of religion and anthropology of religion - he just does not feel first class - I cannot see him being studied like Weber et al!