Freethought & Rationalism Archive

judge · 11-06-2005, 05:01 PM

Can't quote get the image to work. maybe someone can translate the greek

writing in the mosiac.

Quote:

MEGIDDO, ISRAEL - NOVEMBER 5: In this photo released by the Israeli Antiquities Authority (IAA), taken October 31, 2005, a mosaic with writing in ancient Greek is seen on the floor of what may be the oldest Christian church found in Israel and which was reported on local television November 5, 2005 in Megiddo, Israel. The ruins of the building, which was recently discovered in the grounds inside Megiddo prison near the biblical site of Armageddon in northern Israel, have been dated to the 3rd-4th century AD.

From here

Chris Weimer · 11-06-2005, 05:27 PM

Can you PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE fix the link? Thanks.

I'd be surprised if it was actually dated closer to the 3rd century than the 4th century!

Lil' Jerry Seinfeld · 11-06-2005, 05:29 PM

Okay, this is nice. And your point is?

Chris Weimer · 11-06-2005, 05:40 PM

The bottom Greek reads (I think) "π�?ος (ην?)ικεν ακε? τους ???? ο θεος την τ�?απεζαμ? σω ??? ?? ημο(σ?)υνο?"

I can't really make out that much, except God and savior. Anyone can read this better? Anyone getting any different answers than above? Anyone find a better picture?

mata leao · 11-06-2005, 06:54 PM

and the stones will cry out! thanks, will check with the journals on this.

yalla · 11-07-2005, 12:56 AM

Dated 250AD according to Australian television.

cgordon · 11-07-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

and the stones will cry out! thanks, will check with the journals on this.

Um. Riiigghhht.

Listening ....

(crickets)

Toto · 11-07-2005, 01:12 AM

Article in Guardian

Quote:

One of several inscriptions on the mosaic floor in ancient Greek said the building was dedicated to "the memory of the Lord Jesus Christ".

Other inscriptions name a Roman army officer, Gaianus, who donated money to build the floor, and a woman called Ekoptos who "donated this table to the God Jesus Christ in commemoration". The table is believed to have served as an altar.

"There are no crosses on the mosaic floor," said Yotam Tepper, an archaeologist who led the dig on behalf of the Israeli Antiquities Authority. "In their place is a picture of two fish lying side by side - a very early Christian symbol.

. . . . The inscriptions at Megiddo were interpreted by Professor Leah Di Segni of the Hebrew University.

"I was told these were Byzantine but they seem much earlier than anything I have seen so far from the Byzantine period. It could be from the third or the beginning of the fourth century," she said.The use of the word "table" in one inscription instead of "altar" might advance the study of Christianity, she said, because it is widely believed that rituals based on the Last Supper were held around a table used as an altar.

. . .

Some specialists remain sceptical about the latest discovery. "I think this is a little myth to boost tourism," said Michel Piccirillo, a respected biblical archaeologist. "The idea that it is ancient comes from the pottery and the shape of the letters on the inscriptions, but this is not definitive."

Al Jazeera

Quote:

Joe Zias, an anthropologist and a former curator with the Israeli Antiquities Authorities, said the discovery was significant but unlikely to be the world's oldest church.

He said there were no churches until Emperor Constantine legalised Christianity in the fourth century.

"The earliest it could be is fourth century and we have other fourth-century churches. I think what is important here is the size, the inscription and the mosaics," he said.

Telegraph has a clearer photo.

andrewcriddle · 11-07-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Joe Zias, an anthropologist and a former curator with the Israeli Antiquities Authorities, said the discovery was significant but unlikely to be the world's oldest church.

He said there were no churches until Emperor Constantine legalised Christianity in the fourth century.

"The earliest it could be is fourth century and we have other fourth-century churches. I think what is important here is the size, the inscription and the mosaics," he said.

IIUC Christians started constructing churches shortly after the official toleration of Christianity by Gallienus in the 260's.

A very late 3rd century date would be quite possible.

Andrew Criddle

Ben C Smith · 11-07-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

The bottom Greek reads (I think) "π�?ος (ην?)ικεν ακε? τους ???? ο θεος την τ�?απεζαμ? σω ??? ?? ημο(σ?)υνο?"

I can't really make out that much, except God and savior. Anyone can read this better? Anyone getting any different answers than above? Anyone find a better picture?

After looking at the better photo that Toto linked to, the inscription looks to me to read as follows (nomina sacra expanded with braces):

�?�?οσηνικεν Ακεπτους η φιλοθεος την τ�?απεζαν
θ{ε}ω Ι{ησο}υ Χ{�?ιστ}ω μνημοσυνον.

Akeptos the lover of God offered this table as a memorial to the
God Jesus Christ.

The proper name Ακεπτους is unfamiliar to me, and looks quite odd. Corrections always welcome.

Ben.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-06-2005, 05:27 PM	#2
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Can you PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE fix the link? Thanks. I'd be surprised if it was actually dated closer to the 3rd century than the 4th century!

11-06-2005, 05:29 PM	#3
Lil' Jerry Seinfeld Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 122	Okay, this is nice. And your point is?

11-06-2005, 05:40 PM	#4
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	The bottom Greek reads (I think) "π�?ος (ην?)ικεν ακε? τους ???? ο θεος την τ�?απεζαμ? σω ??? ?? ημο(σ?)υνο?" I can't really make out that much, except God and savior. Anyone can read this better? Anyone getting any different answers than above? Anyone find a better picture?

11-06-2005, 06:54 PM	#5
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	and the stones will cry out! thanks, will check with the journals on this.

11-07-2005, 12:56 AM	#6
yalla Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: oz Posts: 1,848	Dated 250AD according to Australian television.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.