Ojuice5001

Yes. Those gods were the rulers of the respective regions where they were worshipped.

Because I belong to the Roman goddess of the past, called Postverta. The idea is that each person has that kind of relation, belonging to a particular god. And for me it happens to be a Roman deity.

Note: I consider the Greek and Roman gods to be the same pantheon. Some confusion attaches to this issue, but I think it's clear that the later Romans themselves thought the same thing. But although the major Olympians are the same under Greek or Roman names, there are deities who were known only to the Romans, or only to the Greeks.

Another reason would be the psychological difficulty in worshipping Yahweh without accepting his claim to be the one true god. I'm sure some people could do it, but for me it would be like hanging around with some guy who regales you with stories about New York--when you know he's never been a hundred miles from home in his life.

Or Michael Moorcock's Lords of Law and Chaos.

muon

The view that the Olympians had merely local or regional authority isn't one that finds much support in the ancient literature. Greeks and Romans regularly mapped their gods onto local equivalents, and naturally equated other pantheons with their own, on the theory that maybe the gods just had chosen to appear in different guises to different people. I'm certain that if the Greeks had encountered the Germanic gods, they would have quickly established equations like Odin=Zeus and the like.

To assert that Zeus had only local authority in the Mediterranian region is to deny most of ancient pagan theological thought. The Greeks and Romans had no problem accepting that there WERE minor local gods, but lumping the Olympians in with that group would have been asking for a date in the arena with a lion ...

Nostalgic Pushhead

So how about now, when almost noone believes in them? Do they still rule the mediteranian? Or are they just killing time waiting for a revival?

What about when new religions are created? If people started believing in the Valar, would they exist?

Ojuice5001

Yes, along with other gods. The old regional associations still exist, but make much less difference in the globalized world we live in today.

The wait may be over. The state of Hellenism is stronger in Greece than you might imagine. (No word on Italian paganism.) There are actual festivals that celebrate the gods.

Not quite. I don't think a religion ever expands beyond cult status without the backing of real gods. But what exactly would happen if there were a religion of believers in the Valar? Here's what I've thought:

There would probably happen to be some gods in existence already that had a certain resemblance to the Valar. (Since Tolkien based his mythology off of historical mythologies, I think that's especially clear in this case.) So if these gods cared to, they would associate themselves with the Valar-worshippers. In that way, these believers in the Valar would eventually be worshipping real gods. Of course, their ideas of the Valar and the actual gods wouldn't be quite the same, because the histories of what happened before the Valar religion was created would be completely divergent. Nor would Middle-Earth be any more real than it is now.

Mind you, that's not exactly what happens in the real world. Religions are created by the gods and humans together, never by humans alone. Nevertheless, your hypothetical case could still result in a situation only slightly different from the normal state of things.

Armagh444

I'm not Ojuice, but I figure I have as much a right to respond to this one as anyone, since I'm one of the other Pagans on the list (Celtic Revivalist in my case).

Do the other gods exist? Of course. I couldn't speculate on what their relationship is to each other, though I don't agree with Ojuice's seeming "pantheons in conflict" take on the matter.

I would agree that YHWH exists as well. Insofar as why I ended up with the old Irish gods...well...that's where I was called. I don't have any particular problems with YHWH (he's a bit given to over-emotionality and tantruming, but overall he's a decent enough old chap); I just wasn't built to walk in his service.

Armagh444

The Romans also popped Roman names onto Celtic deities when they conquered Gaul and what is now England. That doesn't make those Celtic gods equivalent to or the same as the Roman gods.

Philippe*

There were many common points between indo-european religions. Baltics, Slavs, Celtics, Germanics, Hellenes, Latins, Iranians, Vedic Aryans shared many religious beliefs and cultural values, so there is no surprise Romans could assimilate easily other gods and vice versa. Many gods are almost the same with only different names.

BTW, Zeus (greek) is close to Thor (germanic), Taranis (celtic), Perun (slavic), Perkuno (baltic), Jupiter (roman), Indra (aryan) god of power and thunder.

Philippe

Armagh444

"Close" and "similar" is not the same. Granted, it shouldn't be surprising that the Romans assimilated other gods where they could. That being given, simple equation of two pantheons on account of their common Indo-European heritage can lead to a relatively shallow theological understanding in which nuance and subtlety are lost in broad-stroke interpretation.

Dharma

well, one might also take your logic and then say that the Jews angered all the other Gods in Europe and the middle east which is why they were the most persecuted people on earth for the past 2500 years and were scattered across the globe...Yahweh in no way was able to protect them from the fury of these other Gods... perhaps it's the fury of Zeus or Thor :angry: ...?:huh:

Dharma

Zeus-Pater (Jupiter) is the Indo-Aryan Dyaus-Pitar (sky father)...we still give him oblations in vedic sacrifices, which keeps Zeus quite happy...some major Indo European Gods (Zeus, Ignis-Agni, Mithra, Yama (Yima, Yimr) are alive in Hinduism...

also Yahweh are two Gods in one, like the Taoist yin/yang, or Hindu Shiva/Shakti...Yah is the Sky father (Zeus) and Weh is the earth mother (Hera)....Judaism is a purely heathen religion...
For those interested in the heathen Jewish tradition of Yahweh, you can read "Magic of the Ordinary: Recovering the Shamanic in Judaism" by Gershon Winkler...

and if you are interested in the heathen tradition of Islam, please do research on why Mohammad called THE BLACK STONE (shiva lingum), "the right hand of God"...and why Mohammad refused to break this idol... :rolling:

The gruesome threesome (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), aka "The Three Stooges" are simply posers---they are nothing special, their foolish antics was responsible for killing millions of people---in religion they would be termed worse than a used car salesman, selling you the same shit with a different smell then repackaging that shit and calling it "monotheism" ...