Roger Pearse

If anyone produces some answers, perhaps the question might be refined further? "Which non-Christian source mentions the resurrection, which is extant in the original written between 30-35 AD in ink on paper while being authenticated by three independent legally reputable sources and filmed by CNN?" Obviously if that can't be produced then that *proves* Jesus was black.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

mountainman

Dear Roger and Johnny,

The answer to this question is trivial, and resolves of course to the tractate known as "The Acts of Pilate" which was cleverly inserted into the "Gospel of Nicodemus" and describes the account of Pontius Pilate's dealings with the execution and the harry houdini resurrection. Was Pontius Pilate a christian, and if not is the report of Pilate so contained in "His Acts" relevant testimony from the first century?

Immediately, people will say "This was not written in the first century" however we need to be absolutely clear about the fact that "The Acts of Pilate" were presented as being in the first century and were considered by "believers" to be part of the "early christian story" until such time that these tractates were subsequently determined not to have been written in the first century, but in fact are some sort of later forgeries.

For how many centuries was this sort of testimony accepted as being from the first century? From the fourth to the seventeenth? To the eighteenth? When did the consensus shift such that "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" was no longer considered to be a testimony from the first century?

Imhotep, the legendary Egyptian first physician, first architect and mathematician, whose knowledge the Greeks imported to their civilisation under the guise of the son of Apollo, the Healer Asclepius, was black. So the precedent had been set thousands of years BCE.


Best wishes,


Pete

NoMansLand

What difference does it make who might have written about the Resurrection? No one witnessed it. In the NT, the tales all say the people were told he had risen---by angels, no less. Since none of the writer were there either, this makes the Resurrection accounts no less than third hand information (if you want to include the angels). Anyone further down the line would have made the story even more dubious.

Toto

Acts of Pilate Previous thread

There was a pagan Acts of Pilate, described by Eusebius, which was written by Maximilius to discredit Christianity. There is speculation that the Christian Acts of Pilate was written to counter this.

Roger Pearse

What, now? Do I have time to ring my broker first?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

mountainman

Dear Toto,

Why did it take four centuries before this pagan version of the "Memoirs of Pilate and Our Saviour" to appear? Quite obviously it must be related to the implementation by Constantine of the canon of christianity as the authodox monotheistic state Roman religion. It represents a pagan resistance to christianity which probably never showed itself until christainty appeared "above ground". Was the material written to be a satire?

Best wishes,


Pete

Toto

The usual dating is that the pagan Acts of Pilate were written in 311 under the emperor Maximinus Daia. This was before Constantine made Christianity an official religion of the Roman Empire. They are more likely to represent an official Roman reaction to the Christian cult, which the emperor Diocletian had tried to persecute.

Johnny Skeptic

If Christians were able to produce some credible non-Christian, first century sources regarding the Resurrection, that would help them to reasonably establish its historicity. Calling upon the Bible to be its own witness will not do.

I fail to see how the deaths of the disciples is a credible argument since how and why most of them died has not been reasonably established.

mountainman

Dear Toto,

Setting aside issues of the date, the material appears to be a pagan satire of christianity, since we have the pagans though the mouth of Pontius Pilate declaring that Jesus heals through the healing power and authority of the empire-wide healing god Asclepius. I do not see how you can wriggle out of the conclusion that, given Eusebius' testimony, "that the tractate was full of every kind of blasphemy against Christ", that "The Acts of Pilate" are appropriately described as satire and/or parody and/or burlesque.

Best wishes,

Pete

Toto

The pagan Acts of Pilate do not appear to be intended as humor or mockery. They appear to be counter-propaganda, similar to the stories about the evils of communism that school children were fed in the 50's.