Freethought & Rationalism Archive

AJ113 · 10-27-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
At least I have hope that the millions of children in the world dying and starving will eventually be happy, and cease suffering.

Yep, I can see their smiling happy faces now as they gleefully warm their hands on their gently roasting parents.

Dr Rick · 10-27-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
At least I have hope that the millions of children in the world dying and starving will eventually be happy, and cease suffering. At least I have hope of the ultimate savior who will rid the world of pain and suffering. Whats your hope? We will never cure world hunger. We will never stop disease. In the atheistic world, children will die and suffer endlessly as long as the Earth is still here. Thats a heck of a lot more depressing than the children eventually getting to be happy and experience joy and love, instead of hunger and disease.

At least I have a fundamental grasp of reality. At least I don't justify genocide and infanticide. <deleted - liv> We'll never improve the world wishing upon sky-daddies. My hope is that we will continue to improve the human condition rather that rationalize it with happy thoughts of a better afterlife. In the fundi world, human suffering doesn't really matter. Thats a heck of a lot more depressing than striving to eliminate disease, poverty, and hunger to allow children to experience joy and love, instead of hunger and disease.

NearNihil Experience · 10-27-2003, 03:04 PM

"Gee, what a nice sentiment. And atheists claim Christians are hateful. Do you see me wishing death on you? I hope to see you in Heaven one day. Too bad your love for humanity only extends to those who agree with you. "

I don't wish death on you...I want your mindset of insignificance to go away. I have no love for humanity, nor rancor. Whether someone agrees with me or not is not my criteria for liking them.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But to say life is of no importance? How rare it is in the Galaxy and you think it is insignificant?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Thanks for twisting my words. I never said it wasn't important, i just said its not the most important. "

Then what is? And what could be more important than "life" in general and the environment it develops in ?Living and\ or being a living creature?

"Yeah, and improving humanity involves wishing people to commit suicide."
I never said that. I just wish your mindset of insgnificance would go away, and if thats the only way, so be it.

"And I actually did go through a hopeless time in my life, and attempted suicide twice. But of course, you don't think about other peoples feelings. "

Not much. I'm saddened that you were in such a state. There is no need for that. And I do sympathize...I too have had some rough areas in my life (a few that probably warranted suicide), but that's never the answer. But I can also see a connection to this and that "wittle 'ol unimportant me" view you have.

"And your point? If I was as evil as the people described in the Bible, and I was stupid enough to ignore God for 120 freakin years, I deserve His punishment."

Ignore?...babies can not and do not have the capacity to pay any attention to anything complex. Oh sweet justification...You can justify this stuff, but if I were to suggest siucide as a means of humanity leaving behind developmental rubish...that's just going too far...

"At least I have hope that the millions of children in the world dying and starving will eventually be happy, and cease suffering. At least I have hope of the ultimate savior who will rid the world of pain and suffering."

Hope is an inactive and useless menatlity.

" Whats your hope?"
That people keep fighting for a better tomorrow by learning and doing...not by hoping. Hands clasp in prayer do little work and eyes that look to the sky are never looking ahead.

I'm not saying we can create a perfect world, but we can fid strength in or attempts. Thats why my hope ends quickly and my actions and words begin.

"We will never cure world hunger. We will never stop disease. In the atheistic world, children will die and suffer endlessly as long as the Earth is still here. Thats a heck of a lot more depressing than the children eventually getting to be happy and experience joy and love, instead of hunger and disease."

Children do die and suffer endlessly, until death. There is no perfect world, there is no magic and these children who suffer in life die miserable...period.

That's not depressing, you are. That you can't see that this "unfortunate" situation is how things are is a good reason you seem so melancholy and lacadaesical(?). Life sucks death sucks. If we are going to improve the world, step one is seeing it as it is and swallowing that whole without adding things like Heaven and God to make us feel better. That way we take this world and chew it up and spit it out in our image. A better tomorrow, not a reasoned and justified past.

This feeling of insignificance just makes the venom in my veins boil.
That's why I'm being so harsh. I think that the overall feeling of not being as important as your surroundings is a critical error in developing beetter self and better surroundings.

Afterall, what good is a Soccer field without players, and what good are players without a field? Neither is more important. Without one, both are meaningless.

livius drusus · 10-27-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael
How about you folks try being a bit less personal with some of your comments, hmmm?

Indeed. Magus, make an effort to rein in your generalizations. All y'all, rein in the personal insults.

The subject is the use of tragedy for the sake of billboard pithiness. Please stick to that and take the well-worn morality of Noah's ark discussions to a more appropriate venue.

Thank you,
livius drusus
Moderator, GRD

Rational BAC · 10-27-2003, 04:43 PM

After all, it was just a dumb church sign==They are common as dirt you know and meant to be "clever".

==and like most all of them it is some "witty" saying similar to an ad on TV----which like most TV ads does not hold water if you think too much about it.

It was a commercial guys. Quite legitimate in our capitalist society. I don't like all the phony, light weight, very superficial commercialism of this society either.

Maybe somebody bought the "product". Maybe it generated thought out discussions like this one.

In any case, it is not worth getting anybody's panties in a bunch about.

Try it this way------if Lexus for example made a "witty" comparison in a commercial in a magazine or on TV about the sinking of the Titanic---would you be up in arms about it? Be so insulted you would never buy a Lexus? Or would you chuckle a bit about how clever it was on your way to the bathroom for a piss?

McNamara · 10-27-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
We shall never cure disease or end hunger. New diseases evolve, and the resources of the planet fluctuate constantly. Disease and hunger are an unalterable fact of this changing universe.

An unattainable goal. Suffering can only be minimised, not eradicated completely. There will always be some people who suffer.

You missed my point. Even if we can never make the world disease-, hunger-, and suffering-free, we can make it better. Attitudes like those displayed by the billboard (God will save us, not engineering) and expletives like Magus slow our progress toward a better world. The more people have faith in a myth, the less effort is put into medicine and science.

Would you want to go to a doctor who said prayers for you instead of practicing medicine? That's essentially what the guy who was "miracled" out of AIDS is advocating. And this ark billboard is of the same ilk. Let's not actually try to make the world better, let's just trust in a myth!

Biff the unclean · 10-27-2003, 05:02 PM

There are Truth in Advertising laws RBAC that prevent ads like this from being made. Not only is it tasteless but it's a lie.

Rational BAC · 10-27-2003, 05:07 PM

Biff---------

If an ad is meant to be "clever" then as far as I have noticed "truth in advertising" does not prevail.

Remember those old Isuzu commercials with the SUV arriving mysteriously on top of the mountaintop?

I never believed it for one second. Did you? Did you complain about it not being "truth in advertising"? Would it have made any difference if you did complain?

Rational BAC · 10-27-2003, 05:20 PM

One of the most fascinating TV commercials I have ever seen was the "Rube Goldberg" one about the Camry --or maybe it was the Honda Accord--I forget now.

Absolutely fascinating to watch. "How did they do that?" you think.

They "dood that" after over 600 takes, a lot of luck and one not really perceptible cut using computer generated graphics for that one cut. (the room wasn't big enough)

Was it "truth in advertising"? Of course not.

Was it outstandingly cleverly made and a "tour de force"? -----

Yes.

PopeInTheWoods · 10-27-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
One of the most fascinating TV commercials I have ever seen was the "Rube Goldberg" one about the Camry --or maybe it was the Honda Accord--I forget now.

It was an ad for the new Honda Accord.

Andy

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10-27-2003, 03:04 PM	#43
NearNihil Experience Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Up Shit Creek Posts: 1,810	"Gee, what a nice sentiment. And atheists claim Christians are hateful. Do you see me wishing death on you? I hope to see you in Heaven one day. Too bad your love for humanity only extends to those who agree with you. " I don't wish death on you...I want your mindset of insignificance to go away. I have no love for humanity, nor rancor. Whether someone agrees with me or not is not my criteria for liking them. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But to say life is of no importance? How rare it is in the Galaxy and you think it is insignificant? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Thanks for twisting my words. I never said it wasn't important, i just said its not the most important. " Then what is? And what could be more important than "life" in general and the environment it develops in ?Living and\ or being a living creature? "Yeah, and improving humanity involves wishing people to commit suicide." I never said that. I just wish your mindset of insgnificance would go away, and if thats the only way, so be it. "And I actually did go through a hopeless time in my life, and attempted suicide twice. But of course, you don't think about other peoples feelings. " Not much. I'm saddened that you were in such a state. There is no need for that. And I do sympathize...I too have had some rough areas in my life (a few that probably warranted suicide), but that's never the answer. But I can also see a connection to this and that "wittle 'ol unimportant me" view you have. "And your point? If I was as evil as the people described in the Bible, and I was stupid enough to ignore God for 120 freakin years, I deserve His punishment." Ignore?...babies can not and do not have the capacity to pay any attention to anything complex. Oh sweet justification...You can justify this stuff, but if I were to suggest siucide as a means of humanity leaving behind developmental rubish...that's just going too far... "At least I have hope that the millions of children in the world dying and starving will eventually be happy, and cease suffering. At least I have hope of the ultimate savior who will rid the world of pain and suffering." Hope is an inactive and useless menatlity. " Whats your hope?" That people keep fighting for a better tomorrow by learning and doing...not by hoping. Hands clasp in prayer do little work and eyes that look to the sky are never looking ahead. I'm not saying we can create a perfect world, but we can fid strength in or attempts. Thats why my hope ends quickly and my actions and words begin. "We will never cure world hunger. We will never stop disease. In the atheistic world, children will die and suffer endlessly as long as the Earth is still here. Thats a heck of a lot more depressing than the children eventually getting to be happy and experience joy and love, instead of hunger and disease." Children do die and suffer endlessly, until death. There is no perfect world, there is no magic and these children who suffer in life die miserable...period. That's not depressing, you are. That you can't see that this "unfortunate" situation is how things are is a good reason you seem so melancholy and lacadaesical(?). Life sucks death sucks. If we are going to improve the world, step one is seeing it as it is and swallowing that whole without adding things like Heaven and God to make us feel better. That way we take this world and chew it up and spit it out in our image. A better tomorrow, not a reasoned and justified past. This feeling of insignificance just makes the venom in my veins boil. That's why I'm being so harsh. I think that the overall feeling of not being as important as your surroundings is a critical error in developing beetter self and better surroundings. Afterall, what good is a Soccer field without players, and what good are players without a field? Neither is more important. Without one, both are meaningless.

10-27-2003, 04:43 PM	#45
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	After all, it was just a dumb church sign==They are common as dirt you know and meant to be "clever". ==and like most all of them it is some "witty" saying similar to an ad on TV----which like most TV ads does not hold water if you think too much about it. It was a commercial guys. Quite legitimate in our capitalist society. I don't like all the phony, light weight, very superficial commercialism of this society either. Maybe somebody bought the "product". Maybe it generated thought out discussions like this one. In any case, it is not worth getting anybody's panties in a bunch about. Try it this way------if Lexus for example made a "witty" comparison in a commercial in a magazine or on TV about the sinking of the Titanic---would you be up in arms about it? Be so insulted you would never buy a Lexus? Or would you chuckle a bit about how clever it was on your way to the bathroom for a piss?

10-27-2003, 05:02 PM	#47
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	There are Truth in Advertising laws RBAC that prevent ads like this from being made. Not only is it tasteless but it's a lie.

10-27-2003, 05:07 PM	#48
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Biff--------- If an ad is meant to be "clever" then as far as I have noticed "truth in advertising" does not prevail. Remember those old Isuzu commercials with the SUV arriving mysteriously on top of the mountaintop? I never believed it for one second. Did you? Did you complain about it not being "truth in advertising"? Would it have made any difference if you did complain?

10-27-2003, 05:20 PM	#49
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	One of the most fascinating TV commercials I have ever seen was the "Rube Goldberg" one about the Camry --or maybe it was the Honda Accord--I forget now. Absolutely fascinating to watch. "How did they do that?" you think. They "dood that" after over 600 takes, a lot of luck and one not really perceptible cut using computer generated graphics for that one cut. (the room wasn't big enough) Was it "truth in advertising"? Of course not. Was it outstandingly cleverly made and a "tour de force"? ----- Yes.

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