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Clivedurdle · 03-25-2013, 02:45 AM

It is almost as if the change from late antiquity to Byzantium, with its change of religion, was more of a department store makeover with new management and a new logo and colour scheme and staff script. Possibly far more than is realised was kept!

Clivedurdle · 03-25-2013, 02:56 AM

Has xianity deified food? This is my body?

mountainman · 03-26-2013, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

The obvious change of religion, from the true gods to the one god and his son and his breath, is probably a result of economic changes and especially changes in how food was shared. The rules against voluntary associations are important here. Maybe a voluntary organisation is basically selfish as it gives power to a small group, as against all the people being citizens.

The move to monasteries, to sharing food with like minded people, feel like defensive moves one does when being attacked. Institutions are being created - institutionalisation.

Cenobitic Monasticism

Quote:

Cenobitic Monasticism

At Tabenna. in upper Egypt, sometime around 323 AD, Saint Pachomius, chose to mold his disciples into a more organized community in which the monks lived in individual huts or rooms (cellula in Latin,) but worked, ate, and worshipped in shared space. Guidelines for daily life were created, and separate monasteries were created for men and women.Saint Macarius established individual groups of cells such as those at Kellia (founded in 328.) The intention was to bring together individual ascetics who, although pious, did not, like Saint Anthony, have the physical ability or skills to live a solitary existence in the desert. This method of monastic organization is called cenobitic or "community-based." In Catholic theology, this community-based living is considered superior because of the obedience practiced and the accountability offered. The head of a monastery came to be known by the word for "Father;" - in Syriac, Abba; in English, "Abbot."

The community of Pachomius was so successful he was called upon to help organize others, and by one count by the time he died in 346 there were thought to be 3,000 such communities dotting Egypt, especially the Thebaid. Within the span of the next generation this number increased to 7,000. From there monasticism quickly spread out first to Palestine and the Judean Desert, Syria, North Africa and eventually the rest of the Roman Empire.

Chili · 03-26-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Has xianity deified food? This is my body?

I think it deifies the transformed mind wherein we must consume our equal to stay alive. It is just the flipside of Mk.8:24 where the blind man saw "men walking like trees," but instead should see 'trees walking like men' as our equal, and so there more spit was needed that now maybe is snot from a deeper haul so he could see again.

Clivedurdle · 03-26-2013, 11:43 AM

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bring together individual ascetics who, although pious, did not, like Saint Anthony, have the physical ability or skills to live a solitary existence in the desert.

There wasn't a major growth in autistic spectrum issues was there?

mountainman · 04-15-2013, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

bring together individual ascetics who, although pious, did not, like Saint Anthony,
have the physical ability or skills to live a solitary existence in the desert.

Saint Anthony was the literary invention of Athanasius who task it was to fabricate a Christian identity within the desert movement. Someone who had an earlier priority date than Pachomius. Later Jerome embellished the history of Pachomius by asserting that he was baptised before he left town, and was therefore a Christian. This has about as much bullshit in it than his statement that the author of the Acts of Paul wrote in the presence of the Apostle John.

These 4th century Christians were liars.

They had inherited a forgery mill and they were writing a history of its inception and reception.

It is far more likely that the desert monastic movement was precipitated by Constantine's prohibition of the pagan temple "business as usual" work ethic. IMO it was this entire class of pagan worshippers (i.e the "therapeutai") who were effectively made redundant with the implementation of the centralised monotheistic state Christian cult. They decided to vacate to the desert. They were safer from the state cult out in the wilderness than they were in the cities.

Pachomius used some form of secret code, the same code used by the pagan historian Zosimus.

But why would anyone prefer a political history of the early 4th century
when such a wonderful harmonious "Ecclesiastic History" is already in service?

Everyone appears very comfortable with the myth of Christian monasticism.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

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03-25-2013, 02:45 AM	#11
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	It is almost as if the change from late antiquity to Byzantium, with its change of religion, was more of a department store makeover with new management and a new logo and colour scheme and staff script. Possibly far more than is realised was kept!

03-25-2013, 02:56 AM	#12
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Has xianity deified food? This is my body?

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