sweep

please ignore the subject matter - S.E. read on, if you can be bothered

consciousness appears spontaneously wherever there are bodies. The sense of I accords to form. While I agree that, throughout time, there has never been another 'I', in the same configuration, there is no reason why another 'I', in terms of essence, cannot spontaneously appear, with the same believe in form as a permanent fixture.

light never dies; it does not exist in a negative state

If this is true, then consciousness will always appear according to and defined by, that particular form. the problem it seems to me, is that you still hold on to your form, as a permanent fixture, whether flesh or swamp gas. :banghead: < haven't posted one of those for a looong time!

Darth Dane

(consciousness)does not exist in our sleep,

And you know this because?

Magic Primate

The alternative to this is that we have a specific mechanism to wipe all memory of awareness that we had during sleep. What would be the point of this? A conspiracy? Also we do remember dreams, so that's counter-evidence. Obviously we're tlking about dreamless sleep here. REM-sleep does seem to have a level of consciousness associated with it, in fact, lucid dreamers are able to become self-aware in their dreams.

We can also see which areas of the brain are active at any time with brain scans. It seems that during dreamless sleep, the normally complex patterns of the cerebral cortex are replaced by a simple rhythmic pattern - this sort of activity has too little information to constitute consciousness I would have thought.

velvetfinger

Sweep, this 'honest inquest' was facilitated by hallucinogens, I take it? I undertook a similar inquest, with mushrooms though, not mescaline. I took several 'heroic doses' of mushrooms over a few years, hoping to find the Answers which Terrance McKenna, Bill Hicks, and Shamans spoke of. I never found any Truth, but that might have been because I was too preoccupied with all of the pretty colours . In all seriousness, I found nothing but empty promises made by people still searching for reassurance that there is some form of existence after death.

But my experiences left me with some questions which I pose to you: Why is Truth always hidden? Why do you need to take massive amounts of hallucinogens to find Truth? And if you do find Truth while tripping, how are you able to discern Truth from mere hallucination?

Secular Elation

Tell me, can one be awake and asleep simultaneously?

As Primate indicated, there are many aspects of sleep, and different levels of sleep. But generally, it is one of a loss of consciousness.

When I lay down in bed at night, and wait to fall asleep, before I know it, it is morning. I have absolutely no recollection of what occurred between the moment I feel alseep and the moment I woke up. As for dreams, I very rarely remember having them, so that basically does not count.

In essence, that is why consciousness does not exist in sleep.

Secular Elation

I don't think so. Consciousness will only appear in a particular configuration of that form. If our bodies decompose and become detritus feeding material, consciousness cannot survive when our bodies are in that configuration. Only in the configuration of living can it survive.

sweep

Truth isn't always hidden. For me, some truth was and continues to be the battle with myself. This means that I am always fresh when I awake each day, and prone to all the regular things, including all the little thoughs that lead to action. I suppose part of this is saying: 'it felt good yesterday, and here I am doing it again, or should that be aloss?'

I don't. And I really appreciate that you have taken your time to get through to me with this, because some people do need to know that experience allows one access to truths, rather than through one continuous trip, and nothing else. Drugs eventually lead one to trade off bits of life, until all life is the drug- this is very sad. I don't take drugs religiously, but I will take them during my travels. Life always comes first. Now I need to keep pushing, and stay away from stimulus control (that which owns me)

Well, I 'discovered' hallucination quite early, and it became quite clear over time that when you lose your short term memory, it is very difficult to piece things together, leading to a much narrower version of a wider context. I had a tendency to believe everything I thought, and to relate everything I saw to myself.

The initial comments were more of a preamble, leading up to what I tripped over, rather than a way of showing that tripping is truth. My journey led me to lose my mind, and this accident, led me to see that altered perception allows one to see without recognition. This is not the whole of truth, and only part of it. I suppose it is a fast track zen meditation course, but then I don't want to evoke all the mystics out there. I'm sure they would have something to say on the matter. Anyway, thanks for your concern.

yes. But you make the mistake of believing that you own molecules (or perhaps there is no other way to phrase this?). And I have already tried to establish that consciousness 'seems' to cease spatially, but we are always using our perception when we talk of cessation. I understand that taking away and destroying are two separate ideas, but light is still the same no matter where you find it. In a similar vein, the universe should also not exist, and there you come to another question- what was before the big bang? Do you agree that something cannot come from nothing? What were you a hundred years ago? What will you be in a hundred years? Can you find a difference between the two conditions? Is there an end before the beginning too?

Secular Elation

I don't own the molecules; the molecules own me.

Nothing, as far as I know.

Ususally I would be quick to say this. But agreeing with this would contradict the statement that nothing existed before the Big Bang--because how could the universe come from absolute nothingness?

I was nothing.

Nothing. Well, at least, my mind--my conscious self--will be nothing, while my body will exist in scattered molecules after complete decomposition.

There is a similarity between the two conditions--both are the same. Nothingness existed before life, and nothingness will exist after life. As I was not before birth, I will not be after death.

Magic Primate

There was no nothingness before the big bang for the big bang to com from. There was no time or place for this nothing to happen.

I think Sweep is suggesting a parallel with the mind. There was and will be no you-in-oblivion before and after your life. There is not even a subjective location for this oblivion to happen in.

Well, that's my interpretation anyway.

sweep

(very close <mp> very close)

here is a cheesy by a band called 'faith no more':

Surprise! you're dead!
Ha ha! open your eyes
See the world as it used to be when you used to be in it
When you were alive and when you were in love
And when I took it from you!
It's not over yet
You don't remember?
I won't let you forget
The hatred I bestowed
Upon your neck with a fatal blow
From my teeth and my tongue
I've drank and swallowed, but it's just begun
Now you are mine
I'll keep killing you until the end of time
Surprise! you're dead!
Guess what?
It never ends...
The pain, the torment and torture, profanity
Nausea, suffering, perversion, calamity
You can't get away

*edited to add* I get the impression that se is posting just to humour me. look at the phrasing of his replies.