Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 08-16-2010, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

No heretic, or historian SAW those fundamental ERRONEOUS statements from Clement. They appear to have been written long after and were NOT publicly circulated.

Or alternatively, there were plenty of heretics and gnostics and plain unbelievers at large in the Roman empire, but their story has not yet been told, since their writings were burnt, or destroyed or prohibited etc. What do the Nag Hammadi texts say about the "Church and its writings"?

Quote:

The Apocalypse of Peter: NHC 7.3)

"As the Savior was sitting in the temple in the three hundredth (year) of the covenant ...."
"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons,
as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders.
Those people are dry canals."

Quote:

The Interpretation of Knowledge: NHC 11.1

... they came to believe by means of signs and wonders and fabrications. The likeness that came to be through them followed him, but through reproaches and humiliations before they received the apprehension of a vision they fled without having heard that the Christ had been crucified. But our generation is fleeing since it does not yet even believe that the Christ is alive. .

...

And he was crucified and he died - not his own death,
for he did not at all deserve to die because of the church of mortals.
And he was nailed so that they might keep him in the Church.

aa5874 · 08-16-2010, 05:56 PM

Many of the writings of the Church appear to have been INTERNAL documents and were NOT publicly circulated.

Once the writings of and about Ignatius are examined it will soon be revealed that Ignatius was an INVENTED fake martyr.

In a writing called the "Martyrdom of Ignatius" it is claimed that Ignatius was a disciple of the apostle John.

"The Martyrdom of Ignatius" 1

Quote:

...When Trajan, not long since, succeeded to the empire of the Romans, Ignatius, the disciple of John the apostle, a man in all respects of an apostolic character, governed the Church of the Antiochians with great care....

"The Martyrdom of Ignatius" 3

Quote:

.....And after a great deal of suffering he came to Smyrna, where he disembarked with great joy, and hastened to see the holy Polycarp, [formerly] his fellow disciple, and [now] bishop of Smyrna.

For they had both, in old times, been disciples of St. John the Apostle....

Now the apostle called John was a fictitious character in the Jesus stories once Jesus did not exist.

Ignatius was most likely NOT a disciple of John. The claims in "The Martyrdom of Ignatius" about Ignatius are non-historical.

The historicity of Ignatius is in doubt. Ignatius could not have been a disciple of a non-existing apostle John.

Now, if Ignatius wrote that he was a disciple of John during the reign of Trajan then the heretics and historians would have known that he was a fiction writer so it is more likely that the claim that Ignatius and Polycarp were disciples of John was made very long after the time of Trajan.

Only an invented character can meet another fabricated invention.

And now we have the DOMINO EFFECT. Once Jesus is pushed then the "history of the Church" will Fall.

Jesus>the disciples>Paul>Ignatius>Polycarp>Papias>Irenaeus>t he history of the Church

Jesus, all the disciples, including Peter, John and Paul were fabricated inventions and the Church writers who "PERSONALLY" saw and met those fictitious character were themselves inventions.

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