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Old 07-14-2007, 11:03 PM   #11
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The reason Jews didnt eat pigs is that they were holy, like cows to hindus
Opposite reason, though maybe both were ecological in origin.
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:15 PM   #12
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The reason Jews didnt eat pigs is that they were holy, like cows to hindus
Opposite reason, though maybe both were ecological in origin.


Ive always wondered about this as well.

Surley the horse is a far superior animal to be dependant upon; speed to aid in hunting, ability to provide transport or hard labour, and ppl are able to eat its meat, milk and use nearly all parts of its body.

Its milk is apparantly more nourishing than cow milk and lets face it, they look cooler than pigs or cows.

My money is on this being a tradition, the origins of which no one remembers anymore.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:57 AM   #13
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The Mongolians used to use horses for milk and meat. Now the Arabs are getting into (e.g. flavored) Camel milk products. My guess is that a horse is a bit more frisky than a cow so it might not appreciate being milked. Also using horses for transport causes wide distribution of horseshit.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:38 AM   #14
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As Sauron mentioned pigs weren't holy -- they were unclean, this is mentioned in Genesis and Leviticus ("And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted... he is unclean to you." Leviticus 11:7, KJV).

There were and are a number of theories on how his happened. The first is trichinosis (roundworm infestation) and other diseases. Another is that pigs are inherently unclean because they lack sweat glands and enjoy cooling mud. Another is that they eat refuse.

There's some problems with these --first, trichinosis is killed by cooking, mud isn't inherently disease-causing and pigs will eat what you give them or what they can forage for. Certainly, the ancient Chinese, Polynesians, and northern Europeans had no taboos against pigs due to any of this.

Personally, I prefer Marvin Harris' explanation that pigs are simply costly to raise in a desert-ifying environment. Wild pigs prefer forested areas and they need a lot of water because of their lack of sweat glands. Additionally, penned-up pigs compete with humans over grain and other fodder -- this gradually becomes transformed into a flat-out taboo due to costs and strife over water. See Marvin Harris' "Cows Pigs Wars and Witches (or via: amazon.co.uk)" (1974) Random House Press.

Kind of a curious thing here is that the Gadarene swine that had evil spirits cast into them in Mark 5:10-20 ran off into the sea and died.

The Gadarene Swine Tale is only one of a couple of instances of Jesus causing the deaths of anything (fig tree, anyone?).

It could be argued that since the demons ASKED to be sent into the swine, this removes responsibility from Jesus but this just sounds like an excusing addition to the already fanciful tale. Other people see the story as one big metaphor for Jewish rebellion against the piggish Romans that they wanted to drive into the sea. Eh, it's all pretty weird to me.
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:02 AM   #15
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As Sauron mentioned pigs weren't holy -- they were unclean, this is mentioned in Genesis and Leviticus ("And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted... he is unclean to you." Leviticus 11:7, KJV).
Where is the Genesis reference? Swine are prohibited in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

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Personally, I prefer Marvin Harris' explanation that pigs are simply costly to raise in a desert-ifying environment. Wild pigs prefer forested areas and they need a lot of water because of their lack of sweat glands. Additionally, penned-up pigs compete with humans over grain and other fodder -- this gradually becomes transformed into a flat-out taboo due to costs and strife over water. See Marvin Harris' "Cows Pigs Wars and Witches" (1974) Random House Press.
You may want to read my posts beginning here, which discuss Mary Douglas's theory that the pig and other animals were considered unclean because they don't "conform fully to their class."
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:39 PM   #16
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The genesis reference is tangential: "unclean" animals. There are additional references below (added later)

I've read Mary Douglas' view before ...In short, Douglas' explanation is about how a group comes to rationalize their taboo, Harris' is about why they do it, then later rationalize it.

I prefer Harris' as to why a thing comes about for lots of people in a geographic area, supported with archaeological evidence of changing habitat --> economic change and decline in suid presence in tells and other trash heaps. Faunal analysis/DNA shows the presence of "domesticated" suids early on in the Near East neolithic at about 9-10,000 years ago, and it declines with encroaching desertification at 6000-5000 years ago. Mary Douglas was a british structuralist and Marvin Harris was a cultural materialist, both are deceased, but I still prefer one above the other.

Environmental change may bring about lots of things -- The rise of patriarchal religions where the environment is viewed as something to be conquered, the reduced role of females in the Levant/Middle East, migration and increasingly agonistic behaviors. Personally, I don't care much about "classical " archaeology following agriculture, I prefer prehistory -- before people started living on top of each other in little boxes. Cheers!

Swine references in the Bible are here: http://www.bible-topics.com/Swine.html .
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:44 PM   #17
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The pigs in the Bible story is explained in Hitchen's god is Not Great (or via: amazon.co.uk). Needless to say, all atheists should read H.
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #18
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Chapter Three of Hitchen's latest is "A Short Digression on the Pig; or, Why Heaven Hates Ham."

quoted here
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I claim my own solution as original, though without the help of Sir James Frazer and the great Ibn Warraq I might not have hit upon it. According to many ancient authorities, the attitude of early Semites to swine was one of reverence as much as disgust. The eating of pig flesh was considered as something special, even privilaged and ritualistic. (This mad confusion between the sacred and the profane is found in all faiths at all times.) The simultaneous attraction and repulsion derived from an anthropomorphic root: the look of the pig, and the taste of the pig, and the dying yells of the pig, and the evident intelligence of the pig, were too uncomfortably reminiscent of the human. Porcophobia -- and porcophilia -- thus probably originate in a nighttime of human sacrifice and even cannibalism at which the "holy" text often do more than hint. Nothing optional -- from homosexuality to adultery -- is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash. (pgs 39-40).
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:47 PM   #19
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I suspect the Jews did not like seeing somebody taking up swineherding and finding his pigs trashed the local water holes. Pigs also will happily eat carrion. Including dead human bodies. Pigs also will trash a garden thoroughly very quickly. Pigs have a lot of reason for being despised.
But those are not the reasons Jews didnt eat them. Many disgusting things have been regarded as holy, including execution by crucifixion
Pigs are not disgusting. They are clean animals in natural conditions and when properly kept, and intelligent, too. If execution by crucifixion is disgusting, and it is, it is because mankind is disgusting. It has never been regarded as holy, unless by an insane Roman.
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:00 PM   #20
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It just occurred to me that there is an odd detail in the story of the Gadarene swine, above and beyond all the fact that Gadara is some twenty miles from the nearest body of water.

What is the likelihood of a herd of pigs in Judea? Since Jews were strictly forbidden to eat them, could this have been a detail invented by someone who never was there.

RED DAVE
Gadara and/or Gerasa were located to the east or southeast of the Sea of Galilee, not in Judea but in the region known as the Decapolis (ten cities). This region was predominantly Hellenistic/Gentile/Pagan, but did have a sizeable Jewish minority.
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