Freethought & Rationalism Archive

J-D · 07-08-2008, 06:42 PM

The analogy between Pete's approach and 'Last Thursdayism':

'Last Thursdayism' holds that the Creator created the Universe last Thursday. Last Thursdayists respond to any suggestion that there is evidence that makes it look as if the Universe existed before last Thursday by saying that the Creator faked that evidence to make it look as if the Universe existed before last Thursday.

Pete responds to any suggestion that there is evidence that makes it look as if Christianity existed before Constantine and Eusebius concocted it by saying that Constantine and Eusebius faked that evidence to make it look as if Christianity existed earlier.

mountainman · 07-08-2008, 07:06 PM

With a little help from people as far removed from the fourth century as Oded Golan and de Rossi, not to mention bless his little cotton sox, our famous christologist Cyril of Alexandria from the fifth century. The lineage of the christian authodoxy from Constantine and Eusebius, via Constantius and through the brief years of Emperor Julian's INVECTIVES against the GALILAEANS ***, restabilised under the military strength of Damasius and consolidated via the christian emperors of the later 4th century etc.

The implementation of a fiction free status took a century.
This was accomplished via burning and censorship.
See Cyril.

Best wishes,

Pete

PS: *** GALILAEAN = "Hebrew gangster"
Why did Julian refer to 4th century christians as Hebrew gangsters?
And who is Lithargoel?

J-D · 07-08-2008, 07:07 PM

Still in the spirit of Last Thursdayism.

mountainman · 07-08-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Definition
Last Thursdayism,
also Last Tuesdayism and Last Wednesdayism, is the unfalsifiable belief that the whole of the universe was created Last Thursday with the apparent age of an ancient universe.

Discussion

The belief, much like the belief in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, is a parody of one of the many creationist arguments that the universe is only 6000 years old despite having the appearance being of 15 billion-years-old, with the effect of age being brought about by the creation of starlight in transit, or by creating fossils of creatures which never existed to scatter through rock strata bearing witness to geological ages that never took place. (See the article The Earth created with age ("Omphalos") for further details.)

Last Thursdayism serves to parallel many creationist assertions to illustrate by analogy just how ridiculous these creationist assertions really are. For example, a common apology for the existence of ancient animal fossils is that they were placed by Satan to test the faith of the believer. The last Thursdayist may with equal logic say the same thing about last Wednesday's newspaper.

Related Articles

Creationist Arguments
Falsifiability
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Omphalos

Have you ever heard of Popper?
Do you know what falsifiable means?
You do not respond well to C14.
Why is this?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

J-D · 07-08-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Definition
Last Thursdayism,
also Last Tuesdayism and Last Wednesdayism, is the unfalsifiable belief that the whole of the universe was created Last Thursday with the apparent age of an ancient universe.

Discussion

The belief, much like the belief in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, is a parody of one of the many creationist arguments that the universe is only 6000 years old despite having the appearance being of 15 billion-years-old, with the effect of age being brought about by the creation of starlight in transit, or by creating fossils of creatures which never existed to scatter through rock strata bearing witness to geological ages that never took place. (See the article The Earth created with age ("Omphalos") for further details.)

Last Thursdayism serves to parallel many creationist assertions to illustrate by analogy just how ridiculous these creationist assertions really are. For example, a common apology for the existence of ancient animal fossils is that they were placed by Satan to test the faith of the believer. The last Thursdayist may with equal logic say the same thing about last Wednesday's newspaper.

Related Articles

Creationist Arguments
Falsifiability
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Omphalos

Have you ever heard of Popper?
Do you know what falsifiable means?
You do not respond well to C14.
Why is this?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Yes, I have heard of Popper. Yes, I know what 'falsifiable' means. I do not see any reason there to change my assessment of your methodology. I have detailed this above (not for the first time) but you ignore it (not for the first time).

I don't know what you mean by saying I don't 'respond well' to C14. I am partly made of C14. It gives me no problems.

mountainman · 07-08-2008, 11:57 PM

Last Thursdayism connotes unfalsifiability.
My theory is falsifiable via C14.
But you may not see this.

Best wishes

Pete

J-D · 07-09-2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Last Thursdayism connotes unfalsifiability.
My theory is falsifiable via C14.
But you may not see this.

Best wishes

Pete

Perhaps so. To that extent there may be a difference. That doesn't affect your other methodological problems.

mountainman · 07-14-2008, 04:30 PM

Speaking of methodological problems in relation to this thread and other issues J-D (aside from the issue of [Popperian] falsifiability) have you actually read Gore Vidal's Julian (or via: amazon.co.uk)?

Best wishes,

Pete

J-D · 07-15-2008, 03:34 AM

Yes, as it happens, and since you ask, I have read Gore Vidal's Julian (or via: amazon.co.uk). Why do you ask?

mountainman · 07-15-2008, 04:39 PM

There is one single and isolated phrase written and published by Vidal in that work by which Vidal can be said to present the Emperor Julian as thinking that the Galilaeans existed before Constantine. Methodologically, this separates Gore Vidal's presentation of the political situation and my own understanding (which I shall not repeat here). If you are the methodological analyst which you claim to be, finding this phrase might be handy.

Best wishes,

Pete

PS: Truly, I read the book (at least twice) and noted that phrase (once) so fast I lost the marker for the phrase and thus cannot quote it on your behalf. Subsequent skims have failed to find it. It refers to a period of 300 years and the Galilaeans.

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07-08-2008, 06:42 PM	#31
J-D Moderator - General Religious Discussions Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New South Wales Posts: 27,330	The analogy between Pete's approach and 'Last Thursdayism': 'Last Thursdayism' holds that the Creator created the Universe last Thursday. Last Thursdayists respond to any suggestion that there is evidence that makes it look as if the Universe existed before last Thursday by saying that the Creator faked that evidence to make it look as if the Universe existed before last Thursday. Pete responds to any suggestion that there is evidence that makes it look as if Christianity existed before Constantine and Eusebius concocted it by saying that Constantine and Eusebius faked that evidence to make it look as if Christianity existed earlier.

07-08-2008, 07:06 PM	#32
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	With a little help from people as far removed from the fourth century as Oded Golan and de Rossi, not to mention bless his little cotton sox, our famous christologist Cyril of Alexandria from the fifth century. The lineage of the christian authodoxy from Constantine and Eusebius, via Constantius and through the brief years of Emperor Julian's INVECTIVES against the GALILAEANS *, restabilised under the military strength of Damasius and consolidated via the christian emperors of the later 4th century etc. The implementation of a fiction free status took a century. This was accomplished via burning and censorship. See Cyril. Best wishes, Pete PS: * GALILAEAN = "Hebrew gangster" Why did Julian refer to 4th century christians as Hebrew gangsters? And who is Lithargoel?

07-08-2008, 07:07 PM	#33
J-D Moderator - General Religious Discussions Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New South Wales Posts: 27,330	Still in the spirit of Last Thursdayism.

07-08-2008, 11:57 PM	#36
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Last Thursdayism connotes unfalsifiability. My theory is falsifiable via C14. But you may not see this. Best wishes Pete

07-14-2008, 04:30 PM	#38
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Speaking of methodological problems in relation to this thread and other issues J-D (aside from the issue of [Popperian] falsifiability) have you actually read Gore Vidal's Julian (or via: amazon.co.uk)? Best wishes, Pete

07-15-2008, 03:34 AM	#39
J-D Moderator - General Religious Discussions Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New South Wales Posts: 27,330	Yes, as it happens, and since you ask, I have read Gore Vidal's Julian (or via: amazon.co.uk). Why do you ask?

07-15-2008, 04:39 PM	#40
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	There is one single and isolated phrase written and published by Vidal in that work by which Vidal can be said to present the Emperor Julian as thinking that the Galilaeans existed before Constantine. Methodologically, this separates Gore Vidal's presentation of the political situation and my own understanding (which I shall not repeat here). If you are the methodological analyst which you claim to be, finding this phrase might be handy. Best wishes, Pete PS: Truly, I read the book (at least twice) and noted that phrase (once) so fast I lost the marker for the phrase and thus cannot quote it on your behalf. Subsequent skims have failed to find it. It refers to a period of 300 years and the Galilaeans.

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