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Old 01-18-2010, 09:00 AM   #11
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There is a rather good analysis of the use of, and the changes of meaning associated, with the term "Gospel," in Helmut Koester's Ancient Christian Gospels (or via: amazon.co.uk) (1990).

1. The Term "Gospel"
1.1 The Origin of the Term "Gospel" (Greek Usage, usage in OT, Use in Imperial Inscriptions)
1.2 Use in the Pauline Tradition (Letters of Paul, Letters of Ignatius, Deutero-Paulines & Acts)
1.3 Term in the Gospels of the NT
1.4 "Gospel" in the Apostolic Fathers (1 Clement & Ep of Barnabas, Didache, 2nd Clement, Shepherd of Hermas, Polycarp of Smyrna)
1.5 Term in Gospels from Nag Hammadi
1.6 Why written documents come to be called "Gospels"
1.7 From the Oral tradition to the written Gospel (Earliest authorities, Papias, Marcion, Justin Martyr)
1.8 Apocryphal and Canonical Gospels (The Prevailing Prejudice, Criteria for the definition of "Gospel," writings which are not to be counted as Gospels)

Sorry it does not include Aristides, but I do not think it is profitable to interpret his use of the term out of context of these other factors. This is basically a college textbook, but aimed at the undergrad level reader. Above section comprises just 48 pages, not really too much text to absorb, even for those who are averse to reading academic level books.

DCH


Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
Quote:
The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it. This Jesus, then, was born of the race of the Hebrews; and he had twelve disciples in order that the purpose of his incarnation might in time be accomplished. But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried; and they say that after three days he rose and ascended to heaven. Thereupon these twelve disciples went forth throughout the known parts of the world, and kept showing his greatness with all modesty and uprightness. And hence also those of the present day who believe that preaching are called Christians, and they are become famous.
Can we be sure Aristides here means a written gospel, not gospel as teaching? I am not sure about words translated as "preach" and "read" here, whether in original they support gospel-as-teaching or written-gospel interpretation better.

Also, would you say given description is closer to Mark, or Luke, or not decidable?
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:02 AM   #12
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Fools you have no perception.
the stakes we are gambling,
are frighteningly high.
We must crush it completely,
so like Irenaeus' (credibility) before him,
this Eusebius' must die.



JW:
Spin has pointed out that the dating from the Syriac clear:

Apology of Aristides

Quote:
The Apology of Aristides was written by the early Christian writer Aristides (fl. 2nd century). Until 1878, our knowledge of Aristides was confined to some references in works by Eusebius of Caesarea and Saint Jerome. Eusebius said that he was an Athenian philosopher and that Aristides and another apologist, Quadratus, delivered their Apologies directly to the Emperor Hadrian. Aristides is also credited with a sermon on Luke 23:43. Aristides remained a philosopher after his conversion to Christianity, and he continued to work as a philosopher in Athens.

...

But the discovery of the Syriac version reopened the question of the date of the work.

Content of the Apology

Although its title corresponds to that given by the Menian fragment and by Eusebius, it begins with a formal inscription to the emperor Titus Hadrianus Antoninus Augustus Pius; and Dr. Rendel Harris is followed by Adolf von Harnack and others in supposing that it was only through a careless reading of this inscription that the work was supposed to have been addressed to Hadrian. If this be the case, it must be placed elsewhere in the long reign of Antoninus Pius (138-161 CE).
JW:
With apologies to Pete, Eusebius has traditionally been responsible for dating
Aristides here to c. 125 The Papias Smear, Changes in sell Structure. Evidence for an Original 2nd Cent Gospel

We know that in general Christian Apologists such as E are motivated to try and find orthodox Christianity earlier, rather than later. Do we have direct evidence of this here in E's writings?:

Chapter 3. The Apologists that wrote in Defense of the Faith during the Reign of Adrian.

Quote:
1. After Trajan had reigned for nineteen and a half years Ælius Adrian became his successor in the empire. To him Quadratus addressed a discourse containing an apology for our religion, because certain wicked men had attempted to trouble the Christians. The work is still in the hands of a great many of the brethren, as also in our own, and furnishes clear proofs of the man's understanding and of his apostolic orthodoxy.

2. He himself reveals the early date at which he lived in the following words: "But the works of our Saviour were always present, for they were genuine:— those that were healed, and those that were raised from the dead, who were seen not only when they were healed and when they were raised, but were also always present; and not merely while the Saviour was on earth, but also after his death, they were alive for quite a while, so that some of them lived even to our day." Such then was Quadratus.

3. Aristides also, a believer earnestly devoted to our religion, left, like Quadratus, an apology for the faith, addressed to Adrian. His work, too, has been preserved even to the present day by a great many persons.
JW:
Indeed we do. E is careful to use all the key words:

"clear proofs"

"apostolic orthodoxy"

"early date"

"even to our day"

to promote Quadratus and than sells Aristides as cohort here to Quadratus. We know from the Syriac though that contra E, Aristides addressed a different and later Adrian. There are a number of possibilities here:

1) E knew that A meant the later Adrian but used falsehood to promote C.

2) E knew that A referred to the later Adrian but thought the later reference might be a mistake.

3) E knew that A referred to the later Adrian but thought the later reference was a mistake.

4) E had contradictory evidence as to which Adrian was referred to and choose the earlier.

5) E relied on someone else who did one of the above.

6) The Syriac reference to the later Adrian is the mistake.

All we can be sure of is that this is another one for the list:

Was Eusebius A Truth Challenged Advocate For Jesus? - The Argument Resurrected

More importantly, all of these errors of Eusebius that keep being dug up from the early centuries, regarding Pete's theory of Eusebius' evolution, keep reminding me of Fundamentalists claiming that it was the devil that planted fossils in order to trick us.



Joseph

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Old 01-19-2010, 12:02 PM   #13
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I think I can summarise what I was saying more briefly!

1. The Syriac text is a copy of the work of Aristides.

2. The Greek text is not a copy of the work of Aristides. It is a different work, a piece composed by someone else, that happens to contain long extracts, presumably mostly word-for-word, from the lost Greek text of Aristides; but subject to whatever changes the author of Barlaam, in exercising his creative prerogative, chose to make.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:04 PM   #14
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Query about the Armenian: as far as I can tell, neither fragment from the Armenian quotes the passages of interest.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse View Post
Query about the Armenian: as far as I can tell, neither fragment from the Armenian quotes the passages of interest.
That's interesting. According to your introduction, it should contain first two chapters of Apology. Is there some english translation of Armenian fragments available online?
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:30 AM   #16
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I'm really sorry, but I just don't have the time to look into this. A translation of one of the Armenian fragments into English is in one of those introductions; a Latin version of another in the same file.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse View Post
I'm really sorry, but I just don't have the time to look into this. A translation of one of the Armenian fragments into English is in one of those introductions; a Latin version of another in the same file.
aristides introduction actually contains an English translation of both chapters of the Armenian Fragment.

The introduction to the fragment reads
Quote:
TO THE AUTOCRATIC CAESAR ADRIANOS
FROM ARISTIDES, ATHENIAN PHILOSOPHER.
ie the Armenian regards this as addressed to Hadrian not Antoninus Pius.

The passage about the Gospel reads
Quote:
But the Christians reckon their race from the Lord Jesus Christ. He is Himself Son of God on high, who was manifested of the Holy Spirit, came down from heaven, and being born of a Hebrew virgin took on His flesh from the virgin, and was manifested in the nature of humanity the Son of God: who sought to win the entire world to His eternal goodness by His life-giving preaching. He it is who was according to the flesh born of the race of the Hebrews, by the God-bearing virgin Miriam. He chose the twelve disciples, and He by his illuminating truth, dispensing it taught, all the world, and was nailed on the cross by the Jews. Who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, and sent forth His disciples into the whole world, and taught all with divinely miraculous and profoundly wise wonders. Their preaching until this day blossoms and bears fruit, and summons all the world to receive the light.
It is generally accepted that the Armenian is an independent translation from the Greek not a translation from the Syriac.

(As well as the sources listed in this thread there are also two 4th century Greek papyrus fragments of parts of the apology, but they do not cover the passages I have quoted above.)

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Old 01-25-2010, 05:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's site
We were so happy as to discover this text in a volume of Syriac extracts preserved in the library of the convent of St Catharine, upon Mount Sinai, during a delightful visit which we paid to those majestic solitudes and silences in the spring of 1889. Our copy has suffered somewhat in the course of time from successive transcriptions, and needs occasionally the hand of the critical corrector.
Nothing quite like a tiny bit of much needed correcting....

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