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04-19-2006, 07:31 AM | #11 | ||
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Remember, "martyr" in the writings means witness, not necc one put to death as we think of it today. Quote:
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04-19-2006, 07:44 AM | #12 | |||
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We must remember here that the Crucifixion of Jesus the Jew is the end of OT Judaism in the mind of Jesus the Christ with the NT being the new and improved recipe to eternal life. Quote:
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04-19-2006, 08:01 AM | #13 | |
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You must remember here that Peter was empty and vacant as the vessel of faith wherefore he was naked when he went fishing again and caught nothing all night when Jesus appeared and shouted from the shoreline to cast their nets on the other side of the boat where the fish would be large and easy to slice dogma from. This, then, is where when and how he uploaded his cloak and moved to Rome. |
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04-19-2006, 08:06 AM | #14 | |||
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John 21:17-24 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Tend My sheep. 18 "Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself, and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go." 19 Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow Me!" 20 Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His breast at the supper, and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?" 21 Peter therefore seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!" 23 This saying therefore went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" 24 This is the disciple who bears witness of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his witness is true. Quote:
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This was the reason that I quoted those verses from the gospel of John... " And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." |
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04-19-2006, 08:26 AM | #15 | |
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04-19-2006, 08:39 AM | #16 | |
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The writings of the early Christians give evidence as to where Peter died... The following is an excerpt from this site http://www.new-life.net/faq800.htm. The earliest mention that we have of Peter's death is in a letter from Clement, bishop of Rome (AD 88-97), to the Corinthians. He mentions the suffering and martyrdom of Peter and Paul in Rome. |
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04-19-2006, 08:55 AM | #17 | ||||
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04-19-2006, 09:29 AM | #18 | |
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What is the "mention?" All the others were going on hearsay of this "mention" and adding their own legend-building flourishes. Jesus's "prophecy" is vague and poetic and tells us nothing. And it isn't a prophecy if GJohn was written around the same time Peter was said to have died. |
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04-19-2006, 09:40 AM | #19 | ||
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From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
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04-19-2006, 11:20 AM | #20 | |
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But Magdlyn, even that doesn't say that Peter died. Peter was the rock of faith that causes the believer to die while Peter remains forever and ever to be "the other who will tie you fast and carry you off against your will." The faith of Peter indoctrinates lambs at first while they play and go about their own way as they pleased. Peter then becomes a shepherd who leads them hither and thither while they play until they seek understanding in faith and that is when Peter empties himself during the spellbound "tie you fast'" so they might be brought to everlasting life while Peter remains the empty vessel to be glorified in Rome as Rome and by Rome where Peter is the wherewithal of "the way" that is and remains Jesus. That is why Christ stayed and Jesus left because when the end is reached the evidence remains but the way is finished. The spellbound "tie you fast" mode may be an overstatement but if the words "tie you fast" are used in combination with "carry you off" there seems to be very little that we can do about it. |
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