Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vinnie · 03-13-2004, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spin
Don't you think that calling the Hebrew bible "the Old Testament" is a matter of intellectual theft? These are in actual fact Jewish writings which have been misappropriated by xians to justify their "new" religion and act as a mine for their "prophecies" to give a depth to their religion missing in the furst centuries due to its newness and therefore lack of heritage?

Numerous posters here use "OT" as though it were a reasonable denomination for the Jewish literature... and I guess this is because xians have been purveying the work as their own by supercession.

I recommend that you call it for what it is and don't bolster xian arrogance. As you can see, I call it the Hebrew bible, HB, hb....

spin

Christian Scripture vs Hebrew Scripture? Who cares. How about Babble? Better yet, we can go with Old Babble (NT or CS) and Older Babble (OT or HS).

Vinnie

spin · 03-13-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by judge
Ahhh, I see you have cleverly switched tenses.

I was saying what could be said, as against your silly comment about eskimoes. The onus is on you to sustain your claim, not assume it. So, please try to sustain that xianity was a Jewish sect and stop the diatribe.

spin

rlogan · 03-13-2004, 11:15 PM

3 Nephi 21:23 is quite clear that the gentile believers who come to America

"shall assist my people, the rem[n]ant of Jacob [Indians]; and also, as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem"

Thus, the Mormons and the Indians were both Jewish.

Give me a little time. I think I can show the Japanese are Jewish too.

judge · 03-13-2004, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spin
Don't you think that calling the Hebrew bible "the Old Testament" is a matter of intellectual theft?

spin

Is it intellectual theft if a messianic jew does it?
Or aren't they real jews?

spin · 03-13-2004, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by judge
Is it intellectual theft if a messianic jew does it?

It's not a matter of individuals in this case so much as a culture doing the theft.

(Hmm, messianic Jew, giving away what is not his to give away? is that your question? Got any historically demonstrated candidates for such a messianic Jew?)

spin

rlogan · 03-14-2004, 12:02 AM

The Jewish messiah Shabbetai Zevi converted to Islam in the late 1600's, demonstrating that the Islamics are Jewish too.

I did find a citation showing the Japanese too, are Jewish. From one of the Ten lost tribes:

Everyone is Jewish!

judge · 03-14-2004, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spin
It's not a matter of individuals in this case so much as a culture doing the theft.

spin

But a culture did not "do the theft". Do you seriously believe that a "ready made" culture just did this overnight?

That the coming of Christ was the fulfillment of the expectation of the jewish people was first accepted and propogated by a small number in a hostile environment. This a far cry from your accusation that a culture stole something.

How on earth do you think that a culture just turned around and "stole" something?

Secondly what if a group or society of messianic jews call the hebrew bible the Old Testament?

Is that intellectual theft?

judge · 03-14-2004, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rlogan
The Jewish messiah Shabbetai Zevi converted to Islam in the late 1600's, demonstrating that the Islamics are Jewish too.

I did find a citation showing the Japanese too, are Jewish. From one of the Ten lost tribes:

Everyone is Jewish!

Just don't mention Arthur Koestler:notworthy

spin · 03-14-2004, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by judge
But a culture did not "do the theft". Do you seriously believe that a "ready made" culture just did this overnight?

That the coming of Christ was the fulfillment of the expectation of the jewish people was first accepted and propogated by a small number in a hostile environment. This a far cry from your accusation that a culture stole something.

How on earth do you think that a culture just turned around and "stole" something?

Secondly what if a group or society of messianic jews call the hebrew bible the Old Testament?

Is that intellectual theft?

When one is up to the stage of putting out books containing sections called the old testament and the new testament, we are dealing with culture.

Have you got a group or society of messianic Jews -- and I mean Jews, that you can historically demonstrate?

You've been prodding and wriggling, but still no tangible content.

I'm impressed just how far you are prepared to squirm because of this theft. It shows that you feel it.

spin

judge · 03-14-2004, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spin

I'm impressed just how far you are prepared to squirm because of this theft. It shows that you feel it.

spin

Are you sure this is not really showing how you feel? LOL

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03-13-2004, 11:15 PM	#33
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	3 Nephi 21:23 is quite clear that the gentile believers who come to America "shall assist my people, the rem[n]ant of Jacob [Indians]; and also, as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem" Thus, the Mormons and the Indians were both Jewish. Give me a little time. I think I can show the Japanese are Jewish too.

03-14-2004, 12:02 AM	#36
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	The Jewish messiah Shabbetai Zevi converted to Islam in the late 1600's, demonstrating that the Islamics are Jewish too. I did find a citation showing the Japanese too, are Jewish. From one of the Ten lost tribes: Everyone is Jewish!

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