dado

a post like yours certainly doesn't make islam look good...

reprise

FWIW, I still can't find the original Arabic versions of what is being posted here, and Arabic - like any other series of languages - has its subtle nuances. As I do know several fluent speakers in more than one Arabic language and we have access to many more on this messageboard, I'd kind of like to see the original text and have it openly translated here or at least be able to print out the original text and run it by a few of my friends who also happen to speak "multiple Arab languages".

If the OP has an objection to an open translation right here, then I would like to know why.

Ben Willott

That's some nice ad hominem there, River.

Also, did you ever stop to think that those patriarchal cultures are patriarchal because of the teachings of islam and the quran? As mentioned in another post, islam is hardly top of the leaderboard for creating feminist societies.

Do you despise those who make money from best-selling, pro-islamic books?

As regards your rather dramatic parting shot, I suggest you look up Argumentum ad Numerum on the web.

reprise

Just establishing a "restore point" here. In not one of the current threads into which River has introduced the subjects of Christiantity or Islam has he actually replied with an interpretation, a debate, or even an insult to call his own.

Much as I might disagree with most of my religious acquaintances and the people with whom I engage on this messageboard who are people of faith, at least the vast majority of them make an attempt to articulate and interpret their beliefs.

We might be atheists around here, that doesn't mean that we're stupid and that we won't defend the theists around here from unwarranted attacks.

I have - countless times - asked the fundamentalist Christians around here to "put up or shut up" and provide some "evidence" supporting their viewpoint. I don't claim to have friends who can speak and read ALL of the Arabic languages, but I'm quite sure that if you published your claims about what others said in the orginal languages then we could probably manage between us to get our contacts - both secular and religious - to translate.

And yes, I'm quite aware of the significance of having been addressed as "dear".

Mughal

Rules on one of most popular pakistani forums

SEE the freedom to speak your mind HERE

See for banned discusions Here

premjan

I appreciate that reprise comes to the defence of polite theists (there being so many who are not). However, when you are wrong you are wrong and it is kindness for someone to point it out. I have had too much of the opposite happen to me to appreciate the silence of those who know the right answer.

Space Chef

Let's hear it for Ibadi and Sufist Muslims! :notworthy

River

Hey, have you ever seen those that praise "Ibn Warraqs'" works....these people aren't what one would deem objective....they have alway endorsed such writings...purely to undermine Islam.....If you do a background check you can see the hatred that boils from under the chest of these ....

i.e Daniel Pipes for many years have said really disgusting things about Muslims...He even visited my school....only lately has he tried to present himself in a more subtle fashion....Do you think I like being called an " Islamist"....what the heck is an " Islamist" some made up terminology????


----River

River

No .....Islam is inherently not a patriarchal relgion.....Muslim countries in general have strayed away from Islam...and soon their existing regimes will be replaced with something better.----River


11:57. "But if ye turn your backs, then I have conveyed to you that wherewith I was sent to you; and my Lord will replace you with another people. Ye cannot harm (frustrate) Him at all; verily, my Lord is Guardian over all things!"

7:34. Every nation (or community) has its appointed term, and when their appointed term is completed they cannot delay it an hour, nor can they advance it.

River

Yes you are right.....sorry for being blunt and not clarifying myself....

but historically speaking negative publicity and or assaults on Islam never seems to hinder its growth....This is true because people want to find out for themselves ....Is this really Islam? And they begin to realize that most of their preconceived assumptions about Islam were really not true... For the most part in recent years there has been an enormous organized campaign being done to secularize Islam. They ...have succeeded in secularizing Judaism and Christianity ...and it seems that "Jewish/Christian" thought is having less of an impact on our daily lives...and if this trend continues...perhaps those religions will not be here in a few hundred years. Islam , however has been resistant to the secularisation process. We believe in the right to pray multiple times a day...the right to donate our money to the poor and needy....However, I personally do Not believe that they will break down our pillars (5).


---River