Jeffrey Gibson

No, in fact, the word is προσηλύτος.

This is not part of the definition

Where do you get this "i.e. = acceder"/convert to Judaism" bit?? The noun is never used in the OT with this meaning, even leaving aside that there was no such thing as "Judaism" in the time in which the Joseph narrative is set.

Moreover, as LSJ notes, the noun does mean "stranger", especially when it is used of a sojourner.

And most importantly of all, shouldn't you be analyzing the Hebrew word that stands behind the translations you are appealing to (i.e., �*ָבְרִי , since they are translations of the Hebrew scriptures not the LXX.

Why? Can you find any instances in the OT where "convert" is the meaning of �*ָבְרִי?

How do you get from "perhaps" to "in fact"? And how on earth can you even begin to think that the person spoken Ex. 22:20 is
the �*ָבְרִי of vs. 21? Exod. 22:20 is speaking of an Israelite not a "foreigner".

Jeffrey

Gamera

You've asked the very Chrisitan modern Christians need to address, the meaning of Christian identity in the modern world. Instead the entire discourse has been hijacked by fundamentalist weirdos.

Gamera

It is exactly the inconsistency, exactly the fact that Samaritans were anathema to Jews, that Jesus choose the Samaritan as the spiritual neighbor. Remember Jesus is answering a question with this parable, the lawyer's question of "who is my neighbor" as applied to the Law's admonition to love one's neighbor. The parable utterly transforms the meaning of that admonition, which apparently was tribal and exclusive, or at least such was the smarmy lawyer's view.

Toto

Jewish Encyclopedia

Is there a more complete reference for J. Halevy, "R. E. J." ?

Jeffrey Gibson

Revue des études juives

See: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...er=R&artid=255

On Halevy, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hal%C3%A9vy

Jeffrey

HaRaAYaH

You lost me here...... Especially with:
That's all Jews do is recall the exodus from Egypt. They still do every single Friday night during kiddush:

Blessed are You God, King of the Universe, who made us holy with his commandments and favored us, and gave us His holy Shabbat, in love and favor, to be our heritage, as a reminder of the Creation. It is the foremost day of the holy festivals marking the Exodus from Egypt.........

PhilosopherJay

Hi HaRaAYaH,

The position in contemporary Jews is not necessarily relevant. We are trying to reconstruct the positions of people who lived some two - three thousand years ago.

We have to examine the sharp break in the narrative that occurs between the narratological time of Joseph and the time of Moses. The Joseph narrative suggests a group that was proud of their service/servitude to the Egyptian King. The Moses narrative seems to be a retcon (retroactive continuity) job, that portrays that Egyptian service/servitude negatively. It emphasizes the exodus and breaking of bonds with Egypt as opposed to the Josephus narrative which emphasizes the mutually beneficial nature of the relationship between Hebrews and Egyptians.

We may take it that when the Moses narrative was invented, the pro-Egyptian narrative of Joseph/Jacob was the one embraced by the Hebrew multitude. We should consider that the Hebrew followers of Jacob and Joseph
were possibly originally from Sechem and later settled in Judea/Israel.

The Moses narrative would be a revisionist history attacking these Egyptian Hebrews/canaanites by making their memories of good times in Egypt into something terrible. The Moses narrative itself contains strong hints that many Hebrews were quite happy with their lives in Egypt. The Moses narrative celebrates the Exodus and pronounces the misery of the Hebrews' servitude in Egypt. It became dominant and the Joseph narrative which celebrates good times and a warm relationship under the Pharoah in Egypt is only available in the censored form we now find it.

So the frequent calls not to oppress servants/slaves because of the Hebrew experience in Egypt was a call to remember the good experiences of Hebrews in Egypt. These calls were later changed into the nonsensical calls of not oppressing travelers because the Jews were travelers in Egypt.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Jeffrey Gibson

We may?? Why?

Jeffrey

Toto

Jeffrey: Jay has provided this on the JesusMysteries list as background for understanding his methodogy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

http://www.websnark.com/archives/200...ng_just_1.html

http://www.helium.com/items/440642-r...-hotly-debated

I suspect that you will not accept this after reading these, but there is a method there.

Jeffrey Gibson

If you say so. I note that it does not involve working with Hebrew -- of which Jay knows none. Nor does it show any contact with studies on the age of the Joseph narrative or the relevant literature on Exodus 22.

Jeffrey