Starboy

I would think that theology is difficult for everybody. And certainly being a theologist doesn't make you anything. Just like being an entomologist doesn't make you an insect.

Starboy

wildernesse

But for some it obviously isn't--those are the ones who have answers for everything. Your post also shores up mine in a way, in that it does nothing to disprove that "theology is difficult for [atheists]" is not factual or even insulting.

I really don't see how someone saying that theology is difficult for atheists (even if you say it like it is a fact) is *worse* than being called mentally ill and deluded dimwit for believing in God.

Ooh, and you atheists don't like the color chartreuse either! And that's a fact! Repent! Repent!

Someone please make me study! I'm using words like chartreuse--and in psuedo-insults no less! Maybe I've had a bit too much sugar tonight.

Good night, Starboy--hope tomorrow's sunny where you are.

--tibac

seebs

An interesting question! My guess is that some atheists are pretty good at theology, and others, well, not so good.

You see Christians who are utterly incompetent at science reject it a lot more often than you see Christians who are able to manage science reject it, though, and I suspect the same thing applies. The people who buy every remotely plausible sounding argument against God are to theology what YEC's are to science; they don't really understand it, and they've picked their answers. There are people who recognize the flaws in many or most of these arguments, but find one or two sort of compelling. I have a friend like that, going the other way; he basically accepts modern science, but he is unconvinced that evolutionary theory alone is *entirely* sufficient to explain the world we see without some occasional "nudging". He's not in the same class as the YEC's, but he still, in the end, doesn't think the whole eukaryotes->us chain is possible without help.

I have noticed that a lot of the "problems" people describe with religion are, in fact, rooted in gross oversimplifications of the "real" theology, just as the "problems" with evolution are almost always rooted in gross oversimplifications of biology.

Haran

ROTFL! I think these are relatively non-offense, thought-provoking, and funny, but I might be alone in that...

----

*sigh* I'm already two or three pages behind in reading/replying... You had some interesting things to say Biff... Hopefully I'll find more time to reply... I wish you could have had the same experiences that I've had with religion in my life and I truly think your views might be different. If you live in Ireland, as I gather, I can certainly understand why you might have negative views of religion and theists in general (i.e. in reference to the Catholic / Protestant problems there which I can't pretend to really understand).

beyelzu

sorry, I thought you argued that ridicule could be used for that purpose, but maybe it was heathen dawn, sorry about that if I was mistaken.

Biff the unclean

You had some interesting things to say Biff... Hopefully I'll find more time to reply...
Thank you, I'll be right here if you find time.
I wish you could have had the same experiences that I've had with religion in my life and I truly think your views might be different.
My views were quite different until as an under graduate I met an Atheist who barged into the campus religious club that I belonged to. Completely obnoxious, poorly educated black guy who when the president of the club said "I don't need proof for I have faith" replied "Goods thing youse gots that then 'cause youse ain't got no proofs." I was so pissed at this A hole for saying such a thing that I went right out to find the proof so that I could shove it in his face.
What I found was that he was right and I was wrong. I never saw him again to thank him.
I'm sorry you didn't have this experience, I truly think your views might be different.
If you live in Ireland, as I gather,
I grew up in Ireland. I'm a naturalized American now and live on the San Francisco peninsula near Stanford and I work on inter-species communication.
I can certainly understand why you might have negative views of religion and theists in general (i.e. in reference to the Catholic / Protestant problems there which I can't pretend to really understand)
For accuracy's sake I should point out that we Micks tend to have extended families and while the grand father was my mother's da and the uncle was my da's oldest brother the cousins were more distant than Americans usually count cousins.
How the Catholics and the Prods work is easy enough to understand. If you keep your beliefs to yourself, mind your own business and respect the beliefs of others�but you believe the wrong thing you will be attacked. If you turn the other cheek and return kindness for cruelty and never say a harsh word you will be seen as an easy target and you will be killed. Then you will be blamed for your own death because you were one of those terrible people who believed the wrong thing and sure but we know how bad that lot is, faith I know but they went straight to the Devil in Hell. Then someone will say that the killers weren't 'real' Christians after all. But the 'real' Christians somehow never get around to doing anything about the 'false' Christians but be supportive of them poor dears. Themselves they are filled with bible quotes that say Jesus demands that they act like rabid animals.
Then they look for the next weakling who believes the wrong thing and won't stand up for themselves.

AJ113

I'm surprised no one else has highlighted this. (Except that it's blatently off-topic). For some reason I had Magus marked down as a 50-year-old dude who was set in his ways. Magus's youth and immaturity are certainly recognisable in hindsight and, as you say Biff, would have elicited somewhat different responses from me had I realised this at the time.

Gurdur

Because it's not the point.

The point is, nothing excuses the constant flow of venomous ad hominems; they are no adequate substitute for rational argumentation, and only detract from it.

Heathen Dawn

You’re comparing theology to science? Here’s a tonic.

livius drusus

For once, I am going to make a distinctly irrelevant and off-topic comment of my own. To whit: Richard Dawkins is pretty hot.