aa5874

You forgot Judas, the traitor?

storytime

But was Judas the traitor? Jesus knew what Judas was about to do and told him "what thou doest, do quickly." Not to mention Jesus saw himself as a martyr.

Peter, on the other hand, is a different character, and holds all the credentials of a traitor as a religious Jew would have viewed the definition. Also, Jesus seemed to have had more difficulty with Peter than any of the other disciples, even telling Peter that Satan had desired to sift him as wheat. Note the rest of Jesus' words to Peter: "but I have prayed for thee that when thou art converted.."

Converted to what from what?

aa5874

But, was not Judas reporting to the Sanhedrin about the activities and teachings of Jesus.

And Jesus did not see himself as a martyr at all. Jesus TAUGHT his disciples that he would be raised from the dead on the third day.

I have not heard of a three-days martyr.

storytime

No, Judas was angry about the bag of money being wasted on oil to bathe Jesus' feet. Judas stated that the money should have best been used to feed the poor. But Jesus didn't see it that way and said, "the poor ye will always have with you, but me, I have a date with you know who." So it doesn't look to me like Judas was a spy for the Sanhedrin as Jesus knew what he was up to. It looks likes Judas merely took advantage of the situation Jesus was in.

IF Jesus had the power, as he said, to lay his life down and take it up again, that no man took it from him, then his laying it down was in martydom, I would think. Three days would have no bearing on his playing a martyr.

aa5874

It is recorded in the NT that Judas offered to betray Jesus and was promised money in return, Judas was, in effect, a paid informant.

Mark 14:10-11 -
You must be joking. How can a man alive claim to be a martyr? This is just absurd.

If a man comes back to life after three days, even if it was an actual resurrection, and lived for years and then later died from natural causes, he cannot be considered a martyr.

All martyrs are dead. The NT and the Church writers claimed Jesus lives. Jesus was not a martyr, maybe a magician or a sorcerer or just a belief.

storytime

But I can't speculate more absurdity than the story itself. Besides, Jesus said his purpose was to die for that's why he was sent. He wasn't supposed to live, grow old and die. And that among other of his sayings implys martyr to me.

Jesus died a martyr, came back to life after three days in an empty tomb. I propose he was invisible for no one could see him, and those who did see him did not recognize him as Jesus. Do you think they had plastic surgeons back then? :lol:

Yes, the church claims Jesus lives in heaven and will return someday to punish all in hell who don't believe in him. And.. judgement begins at his house, the church of the unrighteous hypocrits. And it is these you'll see sitting in the pews on Sundays, begging for forgiveness until they can't stop themselves from doing the same things again and again. The church was designed for sinners, and aren't you glad that you're not a sinner?