Johnny Skeptic

But you have said that the Devil knows that God exists, but has rejected God, so you have refuted your own argument. In addition, millions of decent people would not be able to accept God even if they believed that he exists.

But God is able to provide additional information that would convince some people to become Christians were not previously convinced, which means that he is not nearly as loving and merciful as you claim he is. In addition, no loving, merciful God would ever endorse eternal punishment without parole. If a man tells his son on numerous occasions not to drive when intoxicated, you would probably claim that the son had been provided with sufficient information, but you most certainly would not claim that if the father saw his son try to drive when intoxicated that the father would not tell his son not to drive when intoxicated. It is called love and compassion.

But human effort alone could never let everyone know about the Gospel message. In the first century, there is no way that anyone who lived in China could have known about the Gospel message. In addition, if God provided me with additional evidence, I might become a Christian.

But God has sinned on numerous occasions according to his own rules.

Actually, no moral good done by God can erase the numerous, needless, unexplained atrocities that he has committed against mankind.

But choice is not involved where decent people are concerned. They cannot will themselves to love the God of the Bible .

But I did not say that you did. Are you not aware of what a hypothetical argument is?

Believe as you wish. Rational minded and fair minded people know that you are wrong. Morally, there is little difference between committing an atrocity and allowing an atrocity to occur. Exodus 4:11 says that God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb. It would be impossible for anyone to ever become blind, deaf, and dumb unless God caused it or allowed it. Standing idly by and allowing atrocities to occur is an example of negligence. God is much better able to prevent atrocities from occurring than anyone else. God killed babies at Sodom and Gomorrah. In the Old Testament, God ordered the death penalty for Jew who killed a Jew, but not for a Jew who killed a slave. God kills people with hurricanes, including babies. Surely you will not claim that the weather originally created itself, and became harsh all by itself after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed, reference Exodus 20:5.

James 2:14-22 say "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

James says that if a man has food and refuses to feed a hungry person that he is vain, and that his faith is dead. Obviously, God is a hypocrite. He tells Christians that if they refuse to feed hungry people that they are vain and that their faith is dead, but hypocritically has allowed millions of people, including millions of Christians, to die slow, painful deaths from starvation. If God does not want to feed people himself, he most certainly would not have told Christians to feed people. If feeding people is a good and worthy goal, then surely it is a good thing for humans AND for God to feed hungry people. I am not aware of any legitimate purpose that is served by telling people to feed hungry people but refusing to feed people yourself. If you claim that there is plenty of food in the world to feed everyone, I will tell you that God frequently destroys food supplies with hurricanes, and locusts that he created have caused many famines. As a result, many people starved to death.

Surely the many atrocities that God has committed and allowed against mankind have not provided him and mankind with any benefits whatsoever.

Sure, commitments are logically possible, but not the kind of commitment that Jesus required, and not based upon no better than even odds. Jesus required that in order to be saved, a man must love God with all of his heart, soul, and mind. A commitment like that is not possible based upon no better than even odds. The logic here is very simple. I assume that the average sixth grader can understand this issue. Do you believe that the odds are considerably better than even that God is not masquerading as an angel of light? If so, where is your evidence?

The point is, the distribution of wealth does not indicate the presence of a loving, caring God. While wealth is frequently distributed to people who are not in greatest need, it is frequently withheld from people who are in greatest need. This gives millions of people the impression that tangible benefits are distributed entirely according to the laws of physics, or that if God exists, he has gone out of his way to make it appear to millions of people that tangible benefits are distributed entirely according to the laws of physics, and that if God exists, he distributes tangible benefits without any regard for a person’s worldview, and frequently without any regard for a person’s needs.

Would you claim that hurricanes do not operate in a random manner?

Ignostic Morgan

:banghead: So God is unjust!Rhutchin,please try to refute the definitive argument .

Doug Shaver

I can read the Bible, but why should I believe that God had anything to do with the writing of the Bible?

Why, aside from your say-so, I mean.