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Originally Posted by Gamera
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Quote:noah
I love the hobbyhorse charge.
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If the hobbyhorse fits, ride it
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Oh stop my ribs!
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noah:First it evinces a frustration born of an (obvious) inability to defend your position.
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I don't need to defend the fact that I'm a Christian and you're a Jew. Different religions. Get used to it.
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Only problem is that's not the point I was making and I'm not a Jew.
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Second, give me a break? It's you Christians who come prancing in here (and elsewhere) touting the fact that you've all been given a pass on your God's laws. You entered this thread saying it. The same with the other two threads we were on.
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Yep, that's what Christianity teaches. Get used to it.
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No. That's what a guy named Paul teaches. The religion is called
Christianity. Not
Paulinanity. Your God teaches, in fact commands the opposite of what Paul teaches. So come out from your intellectual never never land and start getting used to it.
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Sorry, that's what we Christians believe: the law is nonsense.
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Excellent. Please show me where your God says His law is nonsense.
BTW, I keep issuing this simple little challenge Gamera. Why are you not true to your God? Why don't you call
the Law
your God's laws.
Do you think you have it in you to do that Gamera?
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I didn't wander here. I post here.
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Matter of opinion.
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Of course you know what I mean. All scripture includes your God's laws. All scripture means you have to obey your God's perfect and eternal laws. Simple no?
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Yep and Paul and Jesus teaches that that portion which is the law is defunct. Sorry, get used to it.
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Jesus teaches the law is defunct? Really? That's news to me. Please show me where and remember to make sure you cite Mathew 5:17-20 and Matthew 23:2-3 for example.
Also show me how the words
All scripture means any
one or
two parts of scripture bearing in mind of course that All means
all.
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Show us the laws propounded ouside of Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers. List them.
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You know Gamera it's almost sad debating this issue with you. Your utter lack of knowledge regarding the most basic, most fundamental aspects and realities of your bible is something to behold. And what's worse is you don't even know what you don't know. You walk in here all tough with this "list them" crap thinking you've put me in some kind of checkmate but in reality my friend you just walked into a straight right.
Laws outside of Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers?
Sure:
Genesis 9
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3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
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Deuteronomy 5:7-21
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7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
17 Thou shalt not kill.
18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19 Neither shalt thou steal.
20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
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Deuteronomy 24
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1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.
6 No man shall take the nether or the upper millstone to pledge: for he taketh a man's life to pledge.
7 If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you.
8 Take heed in the plague of leprosy, that thou observe diligently, and do according to all that the priests the Levites shall teach you: as I commanded them, so ye shall observe to do.
9 Remember what the LORD thy God did unto Miriam by the way, after that ye were come forth out of Egypt.
10 When thou dost lend thy brother any thing, thou shalt not go into his house to fetch his pledge.
11 Thou shalt stand abroad, and the man to whom thou dost lend shall bring out the pledge abroad unto thee.
12 And if the man be poor, thou shalt not sleep with his pledge:
13 In any case thou shalt deliver him the pledge again when the sun goeth down, that he may sleep in his own raiment, and bless thee: and it shall be righteousness unto thee before the LORD thy God.
14 Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:
15 At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee.
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
17 Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.
19 When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.
20 When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.
21 When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.
22 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt: therefore I command thee to do this thing.
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Deuteronomy 27:15-25
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15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.
20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.
21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.
22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.
24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
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Shall I quote you more laws from outisde Exodus Leviticus and Numbers Gamera?
I don't even know what your "point" is here. You initially said Ezekiel had
nothing to do with the law. Ezekiel was a prophet. That means he had a lot to do with the Law. Telling people, as a spokesman for God, to obey the law means you have a lot to do with the law.
It looked like you said prophets had nothing to do with the Law. You are wrong.
Prophets delivered the law. I gave Mosaic Law as the prime example.
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noah: Do you suppose one day you might actually read the bible Gamera?
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Yeah, I'll work on it.
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Better hurry. You'll find it's a good way to avoid being
clobbered in these debates.
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Ezekiel has nothing to do with the Law? Too funny.
Ezekiel 11:20
Ezekiel 37:24 Please note here that being Messiah means you obey that your God's laws. What was that about Jesus fulfilling your God's laws?
Ezekiel 18:5
Too funny. This one ranks right up there with your telling me that Psa 119:152-160 and Psa 119:106-118 had nothing to do with your God's laws and that they actually said faith in Jesus was the key to salvation.
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Thanks for making my point -- no Law here, just an exortation to follow the Law. See the difference or no?
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My goodness Gamera. You act as though no one is keeping up with your posts here, as though no one were following this discussion.
You said Ezekiel/the Prophets had nothing to do with the law. Your problem is they did. Remember
Mosaic law? Prophets warn people to stay with the law, not to stray from it.
What is your point here anyway?
My original point was 2 Timothy 3:16 made clear that
ALL scripture applied. That means your God's laws apply to you:
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Sophistry. The scripture is the law. The law is scripture. The law is a part of scripture. Scripture is the word used for the bible. ALL of it.
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You then tried to distract by making a bogus non-existent distinction between the law and the prophets:
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No there is the Law and the prophets. Ezekiel has nothing to do with the Law, neither does Amos, etc.
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As I have shown here, this claim is utterly and demonstrably false. God delivered his laws and covenants through the prophets ie Moses & Jeremiah and the prophets tell people to obey the laws and not to stray from them.
You still need to deal with the fact that
nowhere in your God's perfect and eternal laws is there any mention of Jesus or Paul.
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noah:Actually, no it doesn't. Your New Testament contradicts you.
Mathew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away” (Matt. 24:35)
Don't forget Matthew 19:17, REV 12:17, 1 John 2:4, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.
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Yeah, the hobbyhorse again. I've refuted you on these verses over and over again. But happy to do it again.
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Actually you haven't. You haven't even come close. You seem to think you can create reality by uttering your desired state of affairs. Too bad. It doesn't work that way.
To have a chance at refuting me here you'd have to understand the bible.
Nowhere in these next verses you cite is there
any accounting for these verses which show that your God's perfect and eternal laws save: Mathew 5:17-20 together with Matt. 24:35, Matthew 19:17, REV 12:17, 1 John 2:4, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14 and of course+ Psa 119:152-160, Psa 119:106-118, Psa 119:142-147.
You have another problem here with these verses of yours. You are using
Paul to prove
Paul. That's not credible. That's not an argument. That's not logical.
It convinces no one. Do you put
any thought into your posts Gamera?
Second, Paul in his abolition and reinterpretation of the law is in direct violation of your God's laws:
Deuteronomy 4:2
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Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your G-d which I command you.
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Deuteronomy 12:32
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What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
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Or does that matter? Is it Paul or God Gamera?
Now on to these verses of yours keeping in mind that
1) as the expected messiah Jesus will be righteous (obeys the law) and will usher in an era of righteousness.
2) The New Covenant, the word of
your God, in Jeremiah 31-36 makes clear that:
- God will reaffirm his existing laws with the people under a new contract.
-In the days of the new covenant, each person will die for their own sin as stated in Ezek 18:20-28, where God declares that each man will die for his
own sin (No Jesus) and will redeem himself through his own actions and faithful obedience to God's Law (No Jesus or Paul).
- Unlike the old covenant, God will put his existing Law directly inside people and will write it on their hearts so that they follow it without fail. Each person will be in direct contact with God's will.
- No longer will people need to be taught by others about God, for each person will know God personally and directly without the need for any intermediary.
-God will remember the people's sin no more, as their sins will be forgiven.
Note the absence of any mention of Jesus or Paul
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2 Corinthans 3:6 "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
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Wrong. The New Covenant is announced in Jer:31-36. It is based on your God's perfect and eternal laws and has yet to take effect. Nowhere in the New Covenant is there any mention of Paul and faith in Jesus as a human blood sacrifice. Under The New Covenant God will remember the people's sin no more, as their sins will be forgiven.
Second, no one made Paul a minister of anything. Was Paul a Levite? Only Levites can be priests (Ex 29:8-9) as
your God states in his
eternal and
perfect laws.
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Romans 7:4 - Likewise, my
brethren, you have died to the law
through the body of Christ, so that
you may belong to another, to him
who has been raised from the dead
in order that we may bear fruit for
God.
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No one has died to the law. That's Paul's problem. The law is eternal and gives eternal life (Ezek 18:20-28) (Psa 119:152-160) (Mathew 5:17-20). Paul has no scriptural support, no authority from God for this doctrine of his. But does that stop him? Does that stop you? Funny.
Tell me Gamera, if you don't need God or his word to formulate a new doctrine, why stop at Paul? Why not create one of your own? If the criteria is that you need only disobey and ignore the word of your God then anyone can call themselves a follower of Christ and come up with a "new" edition of Christian doctrine.
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Romans 7:6 - But now we are
discharged from the law, dead to
that which held us captive, so that
we serve not under the old written
code but in the new life of the Spirit.
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No. Sorry. The Law is eternal and perfect and applies to all men and women (Mathew 5:17-20) (Matthew 23:2) "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away” (Matt. 24:35)
Don't forget Matthew 19:17, REV 12:17, 1 John 2:4, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.(2 Tim 3:16) (Isa 56:1-8) (Eccl12:13) (Eccl 3:14) (Isa 51:4-8)
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Romans 13:8 - Owe no one
anything, except to love one
another; for he who loves his
neighbor has fulfilled the law
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First of all no law can be, or is designed to be fulfilled. The concept of a law being fulfilled is nonsensical, illogical and unbiblical. That's like saying to the IRS "I don't have to pay taxes because tax paying was fulfilled". HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Loving your neighbor is one law. Obeying it does not erase the other 612. Paul has no, repeat
no, scriptural support for this assertion. Or does that matter?
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Galatians 2:19 - For I through the
law died to the law, that I might live
to God.
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Utter nonsense.
Nowhere in any of your God's laws is there
any provision for dying "to" it. What a sophistry.
I should think at some point Gamera, you might want to contribute some scripture to this discussion. Perhaps some scripture that supported your argument?
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Galatians 3:10 - For all who rely
on works of the law are under a
curse; for it is written, "Cursed be
every one who does not abide by all
things written in the book of the law,
and do them.
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Curse? Sure. It's called a punishment for disobeying your God's laws. I kow it's an untidy bit of Christian biblical truth but you're stuck with it my friend. Period. If you don't like it get a new god. But you and Paul have
no authority to disobey it or teach others to do so (Mathew 5:17-20)
This whole argument of yours is basically "I don't like the laws so I am going to throw my lot on with a proven law breaker". Nice. Good logic.
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Galatians 3:23 - Now before
faith came, we were confined under
the law, kept under restraint until
faith should be revealed
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Faith? Really? Please show me where there is any mention of faith in a human blood sacrifice anywhere in your God's perfect and eternal Laws, making sure to refer to (Mathew 5:17-20) (Matthew 23:2) "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away” (Matt. 24:35)
Don't forget Matthew 19:17, REV 12:17, 1 John 2:4, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.(2 Tim 3:16) (Isa 56:1-8) (Eccl12:13) (Eccl 3:14) (Isa 51:4-8)( Psa 119:152-160) (Psa 119:106-118)
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Galatians 5:3 - I testify again to every man
who receives circumcision that he is bound
to keep the whole law
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Yes. Circumcision according to your God is a sign of the Covenant between Him and Israel who is the recipient of the Laws you must obey. What's your point?
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Galatians 5:4 - You are severed
from Christ, you who would be
justified by the law; you have fallen
away from grace.
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Do you suppose at some point Paul might want to offer some scriptural support for his viloations of his and your God's laws?
The law saves (Mathew 5:17-20) (Matthew 23:2) "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away” (Matt. 24:35)
Don't forget Matthew 19:17, REV 12:17, 1 John 2:4, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.(2 Tim 3:16) (Isa 56:1-8) (Eccl12:13) (Eccl 3:14) (Isa 51:4-8)(Psa 119:152-160) (Psa 119:106-118).
Get used to it Gamera.
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Galatians 5:18 - But if you are
led by the Spirit you are not under
the law.
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Too funny. If you are "under the spirit" you follow your God's laws as the scripture I have been citing here shows.
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Ephesians 2:15 - by abolishing
in his flesh the law of
commandments and ordinances,
that he might create in himself one
new man in place of the two, so
making peace,
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Any Scriptural support anywhere for this? God help me this a bunch of claptrap. Let's just make it up as we go. It's a wonderful Wizard of Oz reality game. Anyone can play. All you have to do is ignore and violate the word of your God.
What a neat litle game.
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Hebrews 7:12 -
For when there
is a change in the priesthood, there
is necessarily a change in the law
as well.
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Sorry. No change in the priesthood occurred
There is no priesthood which ever superseded the Levitical priesthood as the author of Hebrews claims. Your god states that only Levites can be priests:
Ex 29:8-9
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And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.
And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.
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Hebrews 10:1 - For since the
law has but a shadow of the good
things to come instead of the true
form of these realities, it can never,
by the same sacrifices which are
continually offered year after year,
make perfect those who draw near
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Actually the law provided good things. It saves (Mathew 5:17-20) (REV 12:17)(Revelation 14:12) (Revelation 22:14) (Psa 119:152-160) (Psa 119:106-118)
and makes you wise (Psa 19:7) to name just a few of its benefits.
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James 1:25 - But he who looks
into the perfect law, the law of
liberty, and perseveres, being no
hearer that forgets but a doer that
acts, he shall be blessed in his
doing.
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Glad to see you quoting someone besides Paul. Instead of repeating my earlier comments on law breaking, let me throw some NT scripture back at you:
1 John 2:3
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And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
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1 John 2:4-5:
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4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
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1 John 3:22
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And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
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1 John 3:24
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And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
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1 John 5:2
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By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
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1 John 5:3
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For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
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2 John 1:6
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And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
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James 2:10 - For whoever keeps
the whole law but fails in one point
has become guilty of all of it.
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This really doesn't mean much. God doesn't expect you to keep the law perfectly. He merely expects you to try. As long as you keep honestly trying to live lawfully, you and god are fine (Ezekiel 18-2028).
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Gamera: Matthew 22:40 - On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." See: two things -- the Law and the prophets. Not one. Two.
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noah: How does this help your case? Of course there's two most important commandments. It's an ethics based religion with a god at the top.
What would be the point of faithful obeisance to the rest of your God's laws if you couldn't do these first two?
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See above and the Sermon on the mount. That type of literalism was overturned by Jesus. But you're welcome to it.
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What literalism was overturned by Jesus? Mathew 5:17-20 states
every jot and tittle of your god's laws applies and applies for ever. That sounds prettty "literal" to me.
Moreover, in Mathew 5:20 he tells you that you have to be more righteous than the devout Pharisees and scribes in order to be saved. Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 23:2-3.
And since we're into overturning "literalism" Gamera, when are you going to stop taking your god-man Paul so literally and start obeying your real god's laws?
After all if we're all about liberalizing our interpretation of the bible then we have to be consistent don't we? Or no?
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noah: Second, where does it say the other 611 commandments of your God are erased, esp. as it relates to Mathew 5:17-20?
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See above. And the Sermon on the Mount.
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Not much going on "above" Gamera.
Do you want to get into the whole issue of JC sinning and various bible contradictions regarding JC and the law and his ineligibility to be the expected messiah?
I would really like to have that discussion with you Gamera.
But are you sure that's the way you want this discusion to go?
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noah:I have and I do. You threw your lot in with a renegade named Paul and forsook the eternal and perfect word of your god as you did so.
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Sorry, you see Christians believe Paul. Get used to it.
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And they don't beklieve God. You need to finish that sentence Gamera.
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But they weren't in three places that we know of. Why do you believe he's inspired elsewhere if he admits he's uninspired three times?
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Why would you mention something being uninspired except to draw attention to what is. Gesssh.
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How is this an argument? I don't even know what you think you're saying here. Whatever you're saying here it does nothing for you.
Someone tells me they're uninspired in three places, I immediately assume they're uninpired elsewhere, esp. in Paul's case where he has already admitted to being a liar.
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Second why would your God, who doesn't change (Malachi 3:6) become the very thing he warned against?
(Deuteronomy 4:2) (Deuteronomy 12:32) Jeremiah 44:23
(Isa 29:13) (Psa 50:16-17)
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God didn't. His covenant did.
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Nice try. Do you think
any of these answers through before you post them Gamera? I mean really.
DO you honestly expect to argue with any credibility that a God who stays the same and never changes changes his will, changes his mind and completely reverses himself.
Sorry to be the one to break the bad news to you Gamera but when god says he
never changes, he means his will never changes. That means his perfect and eternal laws never change. To quote you:Gesssh.
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Third, how do perfect and eternal laws become abolished?
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By God, who is beyond some paltry laws
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Oh my. I see what youir problem here is Gamera. You seem to have mistaken form for substance. It's obvious to me now that a substantive post for you consists of a cursory reading of someone's post and then jotting down immediately whatever comes to mind in some sort of drive by posting fashion without ever actually thinking about what you're saying.
Please show me where god, who never changes, declares one day that his perfect and eternal laws are obsolete and annulled? (grabbing popcorn)
I will say again that it is illogical and defies common sense and scripture itself to argue that god became the very thing he warned against.
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noah: Nope. We have the same texts and you are knowingly now and willingly throwing your lot in with a verifiable renegade and turning away from the perfect and eternal word of your Creator.
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Nope, you reject Paul, Christians don't. See the difference?
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Still don't get it do you Gamera. I reject the whole bible. You don't. See the difference?
In any case you have still not explained why you threw your lot in with a law breaker who came up with some new unbiblical doctrine of his own which violated
your God's Laws
Deuteronomy 4:2
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Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your G-d which I command you.
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Deuteronomy 12:32
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What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
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That's so funny. I just read your profile. You say you're an attorney. Please do tell us how and why as an attorney you hold law breakers in such high esteem? (grabbing more popcorn)
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noah: Did Paul create you?
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Did Moses create you?
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Relevance? I don't care about Moses.
I'll repeat the question. I guess I'll have to fill it out for you a bit.
Your god created you. Right? Or no?
If you agree that
your god created you then I assume you're in agreement that Paul did
not create you. Or no?
If you agree that Paul
did not create you and that
your God created you, then why do you take the word of Paul over the eternal and perfect word of your unchanging God who, in fact, is your Creator?
Simple question no?
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noah: Sure you do. Then you can go ahead and explain to me what the one Christian belief/doctrine is regarding:
The Trinity
Salvation
The Apostolic Succession
Baptism
Confession
Purgatory
Praying to the Virgin Mary
Sorry. I'm not Jewish.
1 billion mistakes don't equal a right.
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I see your problem, You think Christianity is a bunch of doctrines. Let me help you, Christianity is the gospel message, which we all agree upon.
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I love the "let me help you" here from Gamera. Folks, if anybody needs help it is the person who violates their god's laws.
Again Gamera. I can only assume you just showed up here and typed the first thing that popped into your head. Did I mention you might want to think your posts through a bit?
Any religion is the culmination of many doctrines and beliefs. I was hoping I wouldn't have to go to the dictionary with you Gamera but it looks like we have no choice.
The defintion of "religion" from
Merriam-Webster
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2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
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From
Dictionary.com
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A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader
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From
Answers.com
Quote:
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A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
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From
The Free Dictionary:
Quote:
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A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader
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Shall I furnish you with more definitions of religion or do you get the
obvious now?
So as I asked you before, if you Christians are all filled with the sam Holy Spirit ot Jesus or whatever you say it is, why can't you agree on anything?
Just to refresh I'll ask you agian to tell me what the
one Christian doctrine is regarding:
The Trinity
Salvation
The Apostolic Succession
Baptism
Confession
Purgatory
Praying to the Virgin Mary
06-10-2006, 04:59 PM
