Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doug Shaver · 04-17-2009, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I have provided a quotation from the book.

The quotation presents the assertion. It does present any evidence for the assertion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I have also provided a link to it on Google books where the passage and its context are available for reading.

As I said, based on my experience to date with this apologetic tactic, I must suppose that it would likely be a waste of my time to read the book. When apologists say, "You will find the evidence you have asked for if you read this book," they are rarely telling the truth.

Clinical · 04-17-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

7. Muhammad as a youth and the trade journeys
Muhammad (pbuh) began to grow up in a steady family home with Abu Talib, his uncle. Muhammad tended sheep as a youngster and later when he was about 12 years old, he accompanied Abu Talib on a trade journey to Syria. In a place called Bushra a very interesting incident took place, which caused Abu Talib to return Muhammad to Makkah.
On their trade journey they met a monk by the name of Bahira. Bahira lived a simple life in a monastery. He had very simple provisions and lived a harsh life, surviving on the bare essentials of life. His diet was very simple and the clothes he wore were also coarse and well worn. He was looking outside and saw a caravan approaching. His residence were on the main caravan route and he regularly saw caravans passing by. They would be carrying different goods destined to be sold in the great markets of Syria.
He noticed that this caravan was different; there was something special about it. He decided to invite them to a meal and find out more. Bahira sent a message to the caravan that his hospitality was extended to all the members of the caravan. The caravan traders accepted the invitation and arrived at the monk’s place.
When they arrived, Bahira searched their faces looking for something. He said that I offered my hospitality to everyone did you leave anyone behind? They said that we left a young boy Muhammad to look after the camels. Bahira insisted that they send someone to get Muhammad and bring him to the entertainment. When Bahira saw the face of Muhammad he was delighted.
After the food, Bahira approached Abu Talib saying that Muhammad would be a great prophet one day. He said that when he had seen the caravan in the distance there was a cloud hanging over them, which was shading them from the great heat of the desert. When the caravan had stopped under a tree the cloud had also stopped above them.
Bahira said that he had seen the stones and the trees prostrating to Muhammad as Muhammad had been walking by. They only do this for a prophet of Allah. He looked at the Muhammad's back and noticed the seal of the prophet, which was an oval shape protruding just below Muhammad's shoulder blades. He said that this was one of the signs of a great prophet to come that was taught to them in their books.
Bahira said "This is the master of all humans, Allah will send him with a message which would be a mercy to all Humans". Bahira advised that Muhammad should be taken back to Makkah at once, if the Jews found out about Muhammad they would try to kill him. Abu Talib took the advice of this wise old monk and sent Muhammad back with some of the guides.

http://www.musalla.org/Articles/Seerah/seerah7.htm

Sira (Or Seerah) is not credible because it was written 150 years after the death of Muhammad. This Bahira thing is a fairytale for sure.

Clinical · 04-17-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I have provided a quotation from the book.

The quotation presents the assertion. It does present any evidence for the assertion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I have also provided a link to it on Google books where the passage and its context are available for reading.

As I said, based on my experience to date with this apologetic tactic, I must suppose that it would likely be a waste of my time to read the book. When apologists say, "You will find the evidence you have asked for if you read this book," they are rarely telling the truth.

I did not need to go the book that he was recommending because I knew almost for sure the kind of evidence that the author used. A book written 150 years after the death of Muhammad!

Clinical · 04-17-2009, 11:06 AM

As for the thread's original question, I believe that Abrahamic religions are considered "Western", even though they originated in the "East" or "Orient". This is because they significant roles in "Western" culture, especially Christianity. These "Western" religions are then contrasted with the "Eastern" or "Oriental" religions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto etc...

Doug Shaver · 04-18-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

The quotation presents the assertion. It does present any evidence for the assertion.

It should be obvious, but just to make it very clear, I meant to write: It does not present any evidence for the assertion.

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04-17-2009, 11:06 AM	#34
Clinical Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 359	As for the thread's original question, I believe that Abrahamic religions are considered "Western", even though they originated in the "East" or "Orient". This is because they significant roles in "Western" culture, especially Christianity. These "Western" religions are then contrasted with the "Eastern" or "Oriental" religions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto etc...

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