Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vivisector · 01-05-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Kinda makes you wonder if anyone besides Papias really believed it was genuine.

Good point - seems something with so strong a claim to authority would have been preserved in some form, and yet it seems not to have been.

Has anyone made a good argument for a written Aramaic sayings source that made an oral jump to Greek, later captured in Q or another canonical Gospel?

Clivedurdle · 01-05-2005, 08:04 AM

Umm - Occam's razor - do we need to hypothesise lost "Q" documents? Is it possible we have a reasonable set from Nag Hamadi, other sources and the Dead Sea?

Are we starting from what we have, asking does it work by itself, and only introducing possible prior documents if absolutely neccessary?

Chris Weimer · 01-05-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

Um, I don't quite see what you're positing with some of this. Take:

Q1 + M = protoMatthew

You've already defined M as protoMatthew's author. Thus, if M is identical to the author, your formula converts to:

Q1+M=M - which cannot be a valid statement unless Q1 = 0

Are you asserting that protoMatthew's author had no idea about this whole Jesus thing until he read Q1?

I think you do better going with text over formulas.

ProtoMatthew is not the same as M, which is Matthew's Author. The difference lies in the finished product, i.e. M is the actualy source, and pM is the sayings gospel that Papias was talking about.

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01-05-2005, 08:04 AM	#12
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Umm - Occam's razor - do we need to hypothesise lost "Q" documents? Is it possible we have a reasonable set from Nag Hamadi, other sources and the Dead Sea? Are we starting from what we have, asking does it work by itself, and only introducing possible prior documents if absolutely neccessary?

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