Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Angrillori · 03-30-2006, 03:59 PM

Well, that's not quite the title, and I didn't see another thread about this article on a cursory examination, so I thought it merited one!

Here are some notable quotes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by the very title!!

Power of prayer flunks an unusual test

(Not really a quote, but the title sure sounds promising!)

Moving on:

Quote:

NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

(bold added)

Notice the excellent defense mounted by the godbots:

Quote:

Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

Anyhow, I found it a fun read!

just saw the light · 03-30-2006, 04:33 PM

This article was also carried by Fox News of all places

or gino fli fe · 03-30-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

Isn't this another way of saying that God can't be explained it all?

Mace · 03-30-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

Whoa, nice dodge.

Quote:

The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.

I can understand that. With so many people, I'm sure God has a metaphysical clipboard that he uses to check off his prayer patients. He simply can't keep track, despite the fact that he can be everywhere at once.

Quote:

"There are no scientific grounds to expect a result and there are no real theological grounds to expect a result either," he said. "There is no god in either the Christian, Jewish or Moslem scriptures that can be constrained to the point that they can be predicted."

Another nice dodge...

Quote:

Within the Christian tradition, God would be expected to be concerned with a person's eternal salvation, he said, and "why would God change his plans for a particular person just because they're in a research study?"

I don't know, maybe so that the person could live?

Quote:

Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."

No surprise there, because the supernatural doesn't exist.

I'm just amazed at how stupidity and religion can blind some people, and even take away their morality in the process.

EssEff · 03-30-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

...much as ESP can't be studied scientifically either.

fromdownunder · 03-30-2006, 05:10 PM

God always answers prayer. It is just that we do not know whether or not that answer is going to be yes no, or maybe in the next five years if you keep praying hard enough.

And the beauty of it is, not only does he decide (tosses a coin maybe?) what the answer is going to be, he does not respond to the person praying either. Keeps us on our feet!

Norm

Angrillori · 03-30-2006, 05:18 PM

But what about Matt 21:22. It's pretty straightforward:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 21:22

Matthew 21:22
If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Eh?

Mark repeats it, as:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark 11:24

Mark 11:24
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

James even mentions sickness a bit, in only slightly equivocal terms:

Quote:

Originally Posted by James5:15-18

James 5:15
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. 17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops

fromdownunder · 03-30-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angrillori

But what about Matt 21:22. It's pretty straightforward:

Eh?

Mark repeats it, as:

James even mentions sickness a bit, in only slightly equivocal terms:

Sorry, I realise I have not been around for a while, so most people do not know who I am, but did you read my post in full?. Do you think that somebody who wrote "tosses a coin maybe" wouldn't be being at least slightly less than a true believer.

I did used to be a Moderator on these forums after all.

Edited to add, actually it is Matthew repeating Mark. Mark came first.

Norm

christ-on-a-stick · 03-31-2006, 01:20 PM

Buried on page 11 of the Los Angeles Times... http://http://www.latimes.com/news/s...home-headlines

Quote:

The largest study yet on the therapeutic power of prayer by strangers has found that it provided no benefit to the recovery of patients who had undergone cardiac bypass surgery.

In an unexpected twist, patients who knew prayers were being said for them had more complications after surgery than those who did not know, researchers reported Thursday.

The complications were minor, and doctors surmised that they could have been caused by the increased stress on patients worried that their conditions were so bad they needed prayers.

*snip*

Scientists have been trying for at least a decade to determine whether organized prayer on the behalf of others can influence the outcome of medical treatment.

Previous attempts, however, were flawed by experimental and methodological errors that led critics to dismiss findings, both pro and con.

Thursday's study was intended to settle the matter in the most scientific manner possible. It was funded primarily by the John Templeton Foundation, a group based in Pennsylvania that encourages the study of spirituality and science. Results will be published next week in American Heart Journal.

The study was designed as a randomized and blinded trial, meaning that most patients did not know whether someone was praying for them or not. Such trials are considered the gold standard for scientific proof.

Anyone surprised?

Howard · 03-31-2006, 01:33 PM

What a relief. I was really praying for that result.

(Someone had to say it.)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-30-2006, 04:33 PM	#2
just saw the light Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: upper midwest Posts: 166	This article was also carried by Fox News of all places

03-30-2006, 05:10 PM	#6
fromdownunder Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lara, Victoria, Australia Posts: 2,780	God always answers prayer. It is just that we do not know whether or not that answer is going to be yes no, or maybe in the next five years if you keep praying hard enough. And the beauty of it is, not only does he decide (tosses a coin maybe?) what the answer is going to be, he does not respond to the person praying either. Keeps us on our feet! Norm

03-31-2006, 01:33 PM	#10
Howard Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,864	What a relief. I was really praying for that result. (Someone had to say it.)

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.